Horrible things in the bible

[Surgenator]

Good replies
Just wanted to clarify. I'm not a creationist. I believed in Evolution and the big bang way before I knew anything about Christianity (I'm a convert)

Thats good to hear.

Just wanted to see what made other people non religious and a huge% of people answered it was because of the old testament. Maybe I understood it different than anyone else. I don't agree with many things in the bible but they are way past us. Or they simply never happened, in which case nothing to worry about. What the Israelites did or didn't do was never a reason not to believe in god.

I pretty sure that I speak for all atheist here when I say, I don't believe in God because there is no evidence for her existence. It has nothing to do with the atrocities in the OT.

The old testament isn't the reason I am Christian. On another thread about Ex Hindus I wrote why I believe in God because of the fruits of the spirit. If you want to write about that check it out.

I haven't meet one Christian who became Christian because of the OT. They turned Christian because of the love-dovey-scapegoating Jesus. And the peer pressure of the surronding community helped.

Also about republitards- I may be a retard, but not a Republican

Also good to hear. We have too many crazies in `Merica.

[Retrolord]

Good replies
Just wanted to clarify. I'm not a creationist. I believed in Evolution and the big bang way before I knew anything about Christianity (I'm a convert)

Thats good to hear.

Just wanted to see what made other people non religious and a huge% of people answered it was because of the old testament. Maybe I understood it different than anyone else. I don't agree with many things in the bible but they are way past us. Or they simply never happened, in which case nothing to worry about. What the Israelites did or didn't do was never a reason not to believe in god.

I pretty sure that I speak for all atheist here when I say, I don't believe in God because there is no evidence for her existence. It has nothing to do with the atrocities in the OT.

The old testament isn't the reason I am Christian. On another thread about Ex Hindus I wrote why I believe in God because of the fruits of the spirit. If you want to write about that check it out.

I haven't meet one Christian who became Christian because of the OT. They turned Christian because of the love-dovey-scapegoating Jesus. And the peer pressure of the surronding community helped.

Also about republitards- I may be a retard, but not a Republican

Also good to hear. We have too many crazies in `Merica.

Well good to read a positive and kind reply

[Thumpalumpacus]

Just wanted to see what made other people non religious and a huge% of people answered it was because of the old testament.

That is not what eroded my faith. What eroded my faith was the Problem of Evil. The process accelerated once I learned how to use reason intentionally.

The evils perpetrated by Yahweh in the OT were, on rereading, only confirmation that reason was leading me straight.

It should be noted that the New Testament God is just as malevolent; it's just the rhetoric that has been toned down.

[Surgenator]

Well good to read a positive and kind reply

I'm not sure how it's positive. I suggested that God commited atrocities, and Jesus is a scapegoat. I would consider those negative reply, but still kind.

[Esquilax]

Ooh, my turn, my turn!

1- destruction of Canaanites and everyone else. Considering that this is not a myth; I believe (I'm not saying it's right) that god ordered their killing so that his plan could come about (jesus and all)
But why kill the poor Canaanites? (I'm using a collective term)
You probably never heard of child sacrifice to Molech. With their idolatry, they were killing the children and doing other things. Read in context, that is one reason idolatry was bad. The world back then was barbaric guys. When the world's barbaric, god adheres to it; and since during Jesus' s time the world was relatively more peaceful than that, I guess god finally thought that it is time for humanity to be shown what living holy is about (because they were capable of it). Who knows, maybe if we returned to being holy creatures like Adam and Eve; we won't even need the ten commandments.

I thought that god was supposed to be more moral than humans? If he's just going to act like whatever era he's in, why would you trust that any of his commands are actually moral things to do? They could just be reflections of the time, in which case, wouldn't he have to approve of disobedience if it meant you took the more moral path?

Or would he punish you for disobeying, even if obeying was morally wrong?

2- The bears and 42 mauled.
First of all youth at that time meant adolescents after 16. And second, we don't know what calling someone bald back then. There were probably hundreds of people calling him bald and since we don't know how insulting it was for someone to be called bald in those days, I'd like to present a modern day scenario
If you call an African American coon, or nigger, you might get beaten up pretty bad. Same with calling gay people the f word ( I know you're going to point this out, but most catholics and the pope don't discriminate)
Whatever, but imagine if 42 (at least) people called a gay person the f word. Wouldn't he want them all to get punished? And we're talking about a prophet here! In 5000 years they'll be saying- wow that black man beat him up just because he called him a coon? That's rough!
And the bears didn't necessarily kill and eat them. Maul is sort of like a punch. You really think 2 bears waited to see if someones dead to go onto the next one.

If you respond violently to an insult, that's called assault and you're arrested for it. Especially if you're in a minority group, unfortunately. I seriously don't understand why you think "well, these other people would do it too!" is a justification; do two wrongs make a right? Wouldn't god be better equipped to see the moral option is not to do violence? Children learn this stuff: "Sticks and stones," and all that.

3- judges 19 rape. This rape was never condoned by god, neither was the episode with Lots daughters. And who said the Israelites weren't punished? There was a civil war after that!

In the incident with Lot's daughters, Lot was still considered the most moral man in the city, to be rescued when it was destroyed. What does that say about god's position on his actions?

4- slavery. Surely you can't compare that slavery to American slavery. It was customary to have slaves then (I prefer calling them servants) nothing wrong with that. Rich people Still have servants. Atleast god made rules so that they'd be treated properly. He could've let the hebrews do whatever they wished with them, but they didn't.

Why can't I compare the two kinds of slavery? Why is "it's a custom!" an excuse, and not an appeal to tradition fallacy? Rich people don't own their servants, last time I checked. God's rules allowed you to beat and kill your slaves without punishment, and included sections on how to trick temporary slaves into staying on forever. You call that "treated properly"?

I'm trying not to be short, but that slavery stuff is just lazy apologetics at its finest, man. It's insulting to our intelligence.

[Minimalist]

He could've let the hebrews do whatever they wished with them, but they didn't.

Just about the last thing that the Canaanites living in Judah had to worry about was what to do with their "slaves." They were usually on the other end of the whip.

[Cyberman]

Just wanted to see what made other people non religious and a huge% of people answered it was because of the old testament.

Where? From what I see, it's the other way around if anything. Maybe you understood that differently as well.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Okay so I'm a christian, but since these are your forums it would be fair to share what you hate about the bible (the unsettling parts) and christians try to argue them. (A practice debate?)

Oh my, we could begin at the beginning, but it's going to go on a while.

1) We could start by God's choosing to punish all of mankind because one woman and her husband ate a piece of fruit and gained "the knowledge of good and evil."

2) God favors Abel over Cain for dubious reasons and gives Cain a motive for the first murder.

3) God destroys Babel and inhibits the communications of man for fear they might build a tall building.

4) God destroys all humans except Noah, his wife, and their sons, and daughters-in-law and all animals except for a pair of each wild kind, and more of each domestic kind. His excuse is he thinks they are wicked although no example of wickedness is given and he doesn't give them any law until much later.

And that's just the beginning of Genesis.

1. Adam & Eve lived down the road from Assyria, Ethiopia, Arabia, and Persia. They were probably local rulers who collaborated with the Egyptians against the Assyrians.

2. The Cain & Abel story has a lot of variations, including Ishmael & Issac, Joseph and his brothers, Jacob & Esau, Absalom & Amnon. The Cain & Able story more closely resembles that of Absalom & Amnon.

3. Babel was the "nickname" given to Babylon. https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Genesis%2010:10

The Tower of Babel story is most likely a version of the fall of Babylon as told in Isaiah.

4. Noah and the flood story is simply a war story. The flood was the soldiers, probably Chaldeans, sweeping through the land killing, raping, pillaging, and generally being bad asses. Afterwards Nimrod, Noah's great grandson, became the boss in Babylon and built cities in Assyria.
The Noah story uses a lot of metaphors to indicate that it's a war story.

[Exian]

Because Noah's Ark was one of the first stories I was taught as a child, the curse of Canaan always stood out as unusual. A guy sees his dad drunk and naked, so he and one of his randomly picked sons is cursed to a life of slavery.

Dad gets drunk and naked- that's cool.
Guy sees dad- way not fucking cool. Your life's gonna suck, bud.
Grandson didn't do shit- sorry about your luck, pal.

Later on I read that "seeing him naked" was the family friendly version of "anal rape", and that seems to be an effort to ramp up the stakes. Oh, Ham anally raped his dad? Yeah, you go ahead and curse Noah's grandson along with his descendants. This also begs the question- was "his brothers entered the tent backwards with blankets on their shoulders and covered their father's nakedness" family friendly code for "didn't fuck him"?

[Tonus]

The world back then was barbaric guys. When the world's barbaric, god adheres to it;

Why? Why would god need to follow humanity's lead and be just as barbaric as men? Was he somehow incapable of enlightening them? This is the same god who caused the world to flood in order to wipe out all wickedness, and who caused the sun to stop rotating around the earth (cough) for a full day, and who caused fire to fall from the sky and the earth to split open on command, isn't it? Hmm... maybe god wasn't adhering to the world because it was barbaric. Maybe the world was just a reflection of god?

Or maybe... god was a creation of men living in barbaric times. And as in any time period, the super-heroes of the day reflected the attitudes and ideals of the people of their day. Maybe this is why the god of the OT is a war-mongering despot who sanctions rape and pillaging and the keeping of slaves, and the god of the NT is telling everyone to be nice to each other until some future time when he returns as a war-mongering despot who will massacre all of their enemies.