Jesus Christ appears in Lebanon!!

[bozo]

Yes, it is a matter of interpretation. Let's assume the whole 'Jesus Story' was made up. The people who were relaying (making up) these 'events' would surely not portray their 'god' as a liar? I have no problem with interpreting the transfiguration as a display of the coming Kingdom and its glory. Jesus had not yet died etc and another telling thing about the transfiguration 'story' is that Moses and Elijah 'appeared' with Jesus, which to mean is foretelling the resurrection, but I may be wrong. The whole thing may be rubbish but when I read the New Testament and particularly Jesus' words, there is nothing to indicate to me that he was a liar.

Bozo, I would be very intrigued if you claimed that JC had 'found you'. I would ask you all about it and I would understand that if this was real to you, then you would be bound to be affected by it and therefore act upon it. I have not had any kind of 'experience' so I am skeptical that these happen, but I certainly wouldn't reject out of hand what you were saying.

Dotard, 'the Kingdom of God' is a weighty topic of itself and a careful analysis of the NT shows that many things had to occur BEFORE the Kingdom of God becomes a reality ie a physical government with Jesus as the ruler. Lots of things had to happen via the Romans, the times of the Gentiles had to run their course, and the good news has to be preached in ALL THE NATIONS, which of course hadn't happened in the 1st Century. But you are entitled to your interpretation, as I am mine. I see no liar.

CR, my point is simply this, how do you people who want to believe come to accept or reject such claims as I might make?

[Dotard]

Let's assume the whole 'Jesus Story' was made up.

Easy 'nuff.

I have no problem with interpreting the transfiguration as a display of the coming Kingdom and its glory.

But..... it.... never.....got here. His robes get bright, a cloud looms overhead and a disembodied voice bellows "This is Jesus, he is my son. You'd better listen to what he says!" And...... that's it. Doesn't quite demonstrate the coming Kingdom of God in all it's glory to me.

...careful analysis of the NT shows that many things had to occur BEFORE the Kingdom of God becomes a reality ie a physical government with Jesus as the ruler.

Eggzactly! And Jesus said to the dudes standing there before him that some of them will not taste death before they see this happening.

But you are entitled to your interpretation, as I am mine. I see no liar.

Yes ma'am. However I do try not to 'interpret' anything. I read the bible at face value. Literally. If it says God hangs out in the Kingdom of God and the faithful goes there when they die, and the place has gold streets and they refer it this place as heaven in other passages and they say the Kingdom of God (heaven) is coming to earth and you will not die until you see it happening then THAT is exactly what it means.

I do this because it is too easy to 'make up' ways around problems using "interpretation". For example if you or another said that when Jesus said '...you shall not taste death...' he really meant spiritual death not physical and it would be just as 'valid' as the one you're offering up now.

Literally, Jesus lied.

[chatpilot]

Not only is it a matter of interpretation it is a matter of whom to believe.Considering that the first gospel Mark was not written or revealed till about 50 to 60 years after the alleged death of Christ.None of the words in the bible attributed to Christ were copied as he spoke them so basically none of the words in scripture are actually the words of Christ.They are instead the words of the authors of those gospels hence the many contradictions in the story of Jesus and the things he supposedly said.

I see a liar when they put in his mouth that he would return before many of those that were with him would not taste of death.The transfiguration is far from the coming of the kingdom of god on Earth.Many of his followers believed that he would return in their lifetime not 2000 + years later.When he does not show up in our time the christians can keep playing this card by simply saying as the bible says "no one knows the hour nor the day of his coming".We could use that till eternity and continue the false pretenses that religion gives people.

[WWLD]

dude...thats a shadow of a tree...and the "mouth" are leaves blowing in a breeze.

[leo-rcc]

Not only is it a matter of interpretation it is a matter of whom to believe.

Next time when some firm wants to print the bible, whatever version they want to print, they should have 2 check boxes before every verse.

The first check box meaning to take the verse literally.
The second check box when you should use it as a metaphor or parable or allegory.

Now all we have to do is let the Christians themselves figure out which verse is what, and then come forward with a unified version of their bible. It would stop all this useless squabble and 1000's denominations. Had they done that sooner it would even have prevented massive killings.

[CoxRox]

Let's assume the whole 'Jesus Story' was made up.

Easy 'nuff.

I have no problem with interpreting the transfiguration as a display of the coming Kingdom and its glory.

But..... it.... never.....got here. His robes get bright, a cloud looms overhead and a disembodied voice bellows "This is Jesus, he is my son. You'd better listen to what he says!" And...... that's it. Doesn't quite demonstrate the coming Kingdom of God in all it's glory to me.

Events in the OT as well as events leading up to the transfiguration in the NT all have a bearing on the significance of the transifiguration and the kingdom. Here is a short article if you are interested enough to explore it in more depth:

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-matthew-17-1-7.htm



...careful analysis of the NT shows that many things had to occur BEFORE the Kingdom of God becomes a reality ie a physical government with Jesus as the ruler.

Eggzactly! And Jesus said to the dudes standing there before him that some of them will not taste death before they see this happening.

But you are entitled to your interpretation, as I am mine. I see no liar.

Yes ma'am. However I do try not to 'interpret' anything. I read the bible at face value. Literally. If it says God hangs out in the Kingdom of God and the faithful goes there when they die, and the place has gold streets and they refer it this place as heaven in other passages and they say the Kingdom of God (heaven) is coming to earth and you will not die until you see it happening then THAT is exactly what it means.

Well you have to be careful when taking things at face value. If I were to read Jesus' words at Luke22:19 literally:

''Then he took a loaf of bread, gave thanks, broke it in pieces, and handed it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Keep on doing this in memory of me."'' I might believe like some 'christians' that the bread magically transforms into the literal flesh of Jesus, and so too the wine = blood. I don't of course. I see and understand from context and past history, that Jesus uses the bread and wine as symbols to represent his body and blood. So too, his words here:

''And if your eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: it is better for
you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast ...'' Matt 18:9- of course this isn't meant to be literal, but symbolic. The alleged 'lie' of Jesus regarding the coming Kingdom etc, once all things are considered ie context, history, I 'interpret' the meaning to be as already explained. This is not me 'making' stuff 'fit' and trying to riggle out of the possibility that Jesus lied, but I suspect you will not 'allow' for such a possibility. You seem to want it to be a lie, or you haven't understood the 'whole' picuture.


I do this because it is too easy to 'make up' ways around problems using "interpretation". For example if you or another said that when Jesus said '...you shall not taste death...' he really meant spiritual death not physical and it would be just as 'valid' as the one you're offering up now.

Literally, Jesus lied.

Again, I maintain Jesus did not lie.

---

CR, my point is simply this, how do you people who want to believe come to accept or reject such claims as I might make?

I don't do either. I have met people who have had 'experiences' of God or Jesus. They are very sincere about what 'happened' to them etc but you always have the suspicion in the back of your mind that they dreamt it or imagined it. If a group of people came to me and had witnessed something amazing etc, then I might take more note. It's a hard one.

[Dotard]

Well you have to be careful when taking things at face value.

Nope. No 'care' needed. In your example of body and blood of christ there are folks who would disagree with you and say they literally transform into flesh and blood. Then there are some who maintain they 'spiritually transform' (whateverthehelltheatmeans).

So since those that actually believe christianity to be true cannot agree on what is literal and what is figurative then it is left up to us, the reader, to decide.

6 days of creation, literal or figurative?
Talking donkeys, literal or figurative?
People living to be over 900 years old, literal or figurative?
Rich people cannot enter heaven, literal or figurative?
God spreading dung upon peoples faces, literal or figurative?

Who gets to be the authority in determining literal or figurative? The individual reader? Me? You? The corner preacher?

---

About that article;

I saw nothing that would equate the "Kingdom of God" with this little display of light and magic.

Also I think it's worthy to note that in the first paragraph of that article it states "Unlike many other events, Jesus did not announce that it would happen..."

Kinda kills your whole theory about the kingdom of god meaning the transfig. as it was Jesus announcing it.

[CoxRox]

Well you have to be careful when taking things at face value.

Nope. No 'care' needed. In your example of body and blood of christ there are folks who would disagree with you and say they literally transform into flesh and blood. Then there are some who maintain they 'spiritually transform' (whateverthehelltheatmeans).

So since those that actually believe christianity to be true cannot agree on what is literal and what is figurative then it is left up to us, the reader, to decide.

6 days of creation, literal or figurative?
Talking donkeys, literal or figurative?
People living to be over 900 years old, literal or figurative?
Rich people cannot enter heaven, literal or figurative?
God spreading dung upon peoples faces, literal or figurative?

Who gets to be the authority in determining literal or figurative? The individual reader? Me? You? The corner preacher?

---

About that article;

I saw nothing that would equate the "Kingdom of God" with this little display of light and magic.

Also I think it's worthy to note that in the first paragraph of that article it states "Unlike many other events, Jesus did not announce that it would happen..."

Kinda kills your whole theory about the kingdom of god meaning the transfig. as it was Jesus announcing it.

Dotard, you are correct that it is up to us to decide how we understand the Bible's claims and the more you study the Bible the history etc you are equipped to understand when things are literal and when they are not- but that's easy for me to say. I can't prove that is the case. You'd have to commit to considerable time exploring this claim of mine by reading the bible to see what I mean. I don't get bogged down by the different interpretations or doctrines as I know my own interpretation is just as likely to be incorrect. I will admit this. It can be tempting to throw it all away because of the divisions, etc within the 'christian' world and the differing beliefs etc. I, Catherine, find enough 'order' and clear talking, in the bible to enable me to understand it's overall message, or at least I think I do! An example of unambiguous talk (in my opinion) is when Jesus says: ''do to others what you would have them do to you'' Matt 7:12. '' Forgive people when they do wrong things to you. If you forgive them, your Father in heaven will also forgive you.'' Matt 6:14- again, that seems quite clear to me.

Your last point about Jesus not announcing the transfiguration is partly correct. He did not announce he would be 'transfigured'. He alluded to the Kingdom. The person who wrote the article has inadvertently caused confusion where there really isn't any- in my humble opinion. It doesn't say in the Bible that He didn't announce it before hand. That statement is the article writer's opinion.

Once you have a knowledge or understanding of the whole of the Bible, or history of God and his people etc, then you would understand, even if you didn't believe it, that the transfiguration, wasn't just a magic light show and that Jesus wasn't lying, but again that is my claim and probably not worth much.

[Dotard]

Dotard, you are correct that it is up to us to decide how we understand the Bible's claims and the more you study the Bible the history etc you are equipped to understand when things are literal and when they are not

How, exactly are you "more equipped"?

You'd have to commit to considerable time exploring this claim of mine by reading the bible to see what I mean.

Thou arn't assuming I have not read the bible are thou?

...as I know my own interpretation is just as likely to be incorrect.

Truthfully, it is just as valid as any other theist's opinion.

I, Catherine, find enough 'order' and clear talking, in the bible to enable me to understand it's overall message,...

And I, Dotard, also find much clear talking and understanding of the overall message. I bet we would agree on what that message is.

...unambiguous talk (in my opinion) is when Jesus says: ''do to others what you would have them do to you'' Matt 7:12. '' Forgive people when they do wrong things to you. If you forgive them, your Father in heaven will also forgive you.'' Matt 6:14- again, that seems quite clear to me.

Agreed. Very unambiguous and clear in their intended meanings.

That statement is the article writer's opinion.

Stupid writers. Actually that whole article was the writer's opinion.

Once you have a knowledge or understanding of the whole of the Bible, or history of God and his people etc, then you would understand, even if you didn't believe it, that the transfiguration, wasn't just a magic light show and that Jesus wasn't lying..

OMG! You were assuming I haven't read and have no understanding of the bible! Bad CR! Bad!

Seriously CR. I have read the bible cover to cover. I have no problems understanding it. I have very good reading comprehension thank you very much. I understand the history of this God and the early adherents to his existance and subsequently Jesus and his disciples.
Go ahead, ask me something historical about any of it.

[CoxRox]

Dotard, please accept my apologies. I didn't mean to offend. I did assume you'd read some of the Bible. Ok, why then with your understanding of the whole Bible, do you find the 'transfiguration' account rather lame, and akin to a magic show? Also, considering ALL of Jesus' word in the NT, how does he come across to you?

Ouch, my head hurts now......