To explain knowledge of God

[Fidel_Castronaut]

Lol, nah, it ain't.

yah huh it is

[Simon Moon]

The A/S/K method Drich tells us of goes like this-
Idea / investigation, experimentation/ development/ new reality.
It is the scientific method.
How can you not see it?

Not even close.

It is a test of confirmation bias, nothing more.

Muslims will get Muslim biased results.

Mormons will get Mormon biased results.

Christians will get Christian biased results.

[dyresand]

The A/S/K method Drich tells us of goes like this-
Idea / investigation, experimentation/ development/ new reality.
It is the scientific method.
How can you not see it?

Not even close.

It is a test of confirmation bias, nothing more.

Muslims will get Muslim biased results.

Mormons will get Mormon biased results.

Christians will get Christian biased results.

Atheist will get unbiased results. and i find this redundant and stupid and very silly for a god want to know why.
god is flawed in the bible yet people call him perfect. he creates adam and eve. eve being born of the mans rib... sigh....
then he as a magic tree with "forbidden" fruit. also lucifer is there hero of humanity. god says don't eat the fucking fruit
or you will surely die. back to lucifer he knows god better than humans do and he probably rebelled for a good reason as
in the bible only gotten 10 people killed to gods millions...supposedly also he gifted us fire supposedly. so he is the lizard snake
thing who tells eve its okay eat the apple god lied to you. eve tempts adam instead of adam being like god eve did a bad thing a very
bad thing the idiot took a bite...so god comes across them as they both were wearing clothes god was like get the fuck out now i'm
terrible angry and i'm going to do some really bad and terrible things to both of you. child birth and some other thing. if god knew
everything he could have prevented that he could have casted out lucifer of the garden. every terrible thing in the bible is just god
doing what ever evil he can because well he can just be like lucifer did it, and he wasn't around much in the bible to be taking blame
for things.

[Whateverist]

The A/S/K method Drich tells us of goes like this-
Idea / investigation, experimentation/ development/ new reality.
It is the scientific method.
How can you not see it?

Well there is one itsy bitsy difference. With science the purpose is not to get a new reality. It is simply to understand the one we already have.
Lets look more closely at your elaboration of Drich-boy's AKS* model. [Ghetto for "ask".]

Idea - this is where a xtian (or xtian wannabe) begins to believe in his wish.

Investigation,experimentation - try out all the excuses you can think of for any objections that are made against your wish being true.

Development - this is the stage when you begin to re-make your entire persona around the reality of your wish.

New reality - you no longer question that your wish is reality. Mission accomplished.

[Mister Agenda]

What..the hell are you babbling about?

Back in the seventies, a downward cooling trend led to speculation of an upcoming ice age. Though not well-supported in the scientific community (about 10% of papers on the matter predicted cooling while most papers predicted future warming), the media loved it, and the idea made it into a lot of newspaper and magazine articles for a few years. This is the first I've ever heard of it being taught in school, though I can see it as a topic for a report.

Remembering that was one of the things that led me to be resistant to the idea of global warming at first: I thought it was just another 'climate panic'.

[Neo-Scholastic]

That and the population "bomb."

[Mister Agenda]

Maybe proposals concerning human population growth and resource depletion by an entomologist shouldn't be regarded as mainstream science.

[Esquilax]

The A/S/K method Drich tells us of goes like this-
Idea / investigation, experimentation/ development/ new reality.
It is the scientific method.
How can you not see it?

Because the scientific method relies on:

Falsifiability, whereas none of you people will even consider a failure state for the ASK method.

Repeatability, whereas ASK does not produce reliable results over repeatable tests.

Peer review, whereas none of you will even entertain the idea that other variables might be contaminating your results, above and beyond the one variable you want to be real.

Don't start claiming things are scientific until you're ready to work to science's standards, Prof. All you're doing right now is co-opting the reputation of science while hoping to avoid any of the work involved. But if you really, truly think that ASK is scientific, then write a report and submit it to a mainstream scientific publication for peer review, see how that works out for you.

I am, however, a realist. I'm fairly certain that instead of doing that, you'll proceed to whine about how all of science is biased against your god. In which case I'd ask you why you bothered claiming ASK is scientific at all, if you're then going to turn around and denigrate science the moment it doesn't confirm what you want to believe.

[Drich]

This is turning into a Statler-Waldorf kind of reply!
WHY? What's his problem? Why can't he just present himself as the being that you claim he is?

He does, just to those who earnestly seek Him.

Why the mental charade?

You answer is as simple as answering The meaning of life. This life was given to us so we may know in our hearts where we stand in relation of desire to serve and worship God.

If the Glory of God was known to all of us then the vast majority would seek God not to love and worship but to save themselves from Hell.

Again which would defeat the purpose of the time we have been given here. As it is only those who Seek to love and worship God find Him.

Humility/service. Once saved we are not equals. we are servants./slaves Slaves/servants get told what to do.

That's how people fall for cons... how do you know you're not a victim?

God delivered what was promised... That BTW is how one seperates a Con from a genuinly Good Deal. (Whether or not you get what has been promised.)

Truth should bear some resemblance with reality.

If truth does not resemble reality re-examine the variables. In that have you accounted for ALL Of them. In this case I can think of three you have not.

The reality I observe, the reality you observe, the reality that the chinese from 4000 years ago observed.

In what way can this be true? Have you observed all that I have? Has a chinaman who lived 4000 years ago observed what you have? No. of course not. This is why your 'reality' does not resemble the Truth.

Wut?!
Faith transformed to belief?
Try to explain that without metaphors, so I can understand what you mean.

Faith=believeing without seeing.
Belief in this instance refers to evidence based belief. Trials turn a faith based belief into a belief based on evidence.

Knoweledge commands pride and ownership of said knowlwedge. God and man's pride can not coexist.
When you truly humble yourself all that you have you understand has been given as a gift, and that you/I am not the source of said knoweledge/wisdom but just a conduit.

Sounds like a cop out.

actually it sounds like James 4:10 and 1 peter 5:6

Why can't god and man's pride coexist?

Why should it. God is the ultimate authority on everything in creation. What does man have to be proud of when He has been told to be humble?

Is there any logical rule that even god can't break regarding pride?
If there is, how would you know about it?

God has broken the pride of man before, in prophets, and those willing to lay it down before him. But in both cases the one to be hummbled must already belong to Him.

Let's say you contract a non-fatal, but chronic wound, like... lose a leg. god walks thousands through that trial every day... none of them have grown a leg back.

what makes you think God is limited to only make a new leg grow in place of the old one?

Diseases and other things we can't actually see and fully understand how they work, due to their complexity or small scale, cannot have cures and effects attributed to any god, for it will be considered "god of the gaps".

So.. in your world God can not exist in the gaps?

Because in mine, God not only exists in the gaps He also exists in the known world. Meaning God is not just limited to the unknown, but can be seen in conventional knoweledge as well.

Then let him produce himself.

All anyone need do is humble himself to God and allow Him to lift you up.

Considering how humanity has evolved from primates, at some point, if there is such a being, it must have contacted humans and relayed his message onto them.
Let him do the same with me and all, if he wishes me to acknowledge his existence.
If he does not wish it, then just carry on.

this is the pride in which I speak. Do you think the leader of your nation would do such a thing, and personally beg for your vote? Why would a being far superior to any man be forced to seek you out and ask that you serve Him? Again why wouldn't he simply see you to Hell or make the demand you seek Him out?

Because if He sought you where would it stop? New car, New House, Better Job/Lottery win??? I'm not anywhere near God and I can see how foolish it would be to chase after us.

hmmm... do you have a photo of such a "show up"?

I can take a picture of our new facility that we just moved into if you like.. we are paying around 5 dollars a square foot in our current location where as our neighbors are paying 25 dollars a square foot.

What you have provided is not what "god offers me", but what someone wrote in the bible about that god.

One sure way to tell if the offer extends to you or not. (Take Him up on said offer properly)

And you believe in the contents of the bible, hence, you believe that the god offers anything.

I believe the bible because trial after trial hardship after hardship the principles and promises contained in it ring out to be true.

Don't turn things around, man.
First and foremost, thus far, you have let us know this: you believe in the bible. (specifically the NT... the OT is nasty and needs some cherry picking, am I right?)

Nuupe. all of it. However as I am not an OT Jew it does not all apply to me. Remember 2 dictinct religions are being repersented here.

And yet, all those valleys can be attributed to natural causes, as well as the climbing out of them.

If you were to take anyone situation and apply it to anyone this could be easily explained away as a natural part of life. But, as some of your peers can even attest the level and sheer volume of 'crap' that I've been through makes it seem unlikly that I am telling the truth in everything that I have reported here.. I know some are even doubting the whole cancer scare I have been going through for the last 6 months. Even members of my own church can sometimes think it is all too much and I am 'streaching the truth.' But, in truth I have experenced and endured much more..
Comming out on top or better when one goes into a situation is unique to what God has promised.

Why should I even consider the option of a god, if no one had come up with that concept before me?

There is no reason to consider God unless you look forward to an eternity of service.

Didn't I say something about Newton, before?

Didn't I point back to the parable itself and reillustrate how A/S/K is a fundemental way humanity seeks out need? Now ask yourself is what newton discovered based off of basic need?

I know it's not "your" method... it's a way of speaking!
But yes, you're right, it's something tied to our core existence.

Something in the way our brains work, makes the ASK method work the same for any concept of god.
If you seek the god of the Qur'an, you find the god of the Qur'an.

In truth the god of the koran does not avail himself to humanity on mass.

If you seek the god of the bible, you find the god of the bible.

Not just seek. Many openly seek and as your trying to illustrate can only find what their minds will accept. One has to ask Seek and knock. Ask and seek many of you have, it is the knocking that seperate those who find the God of the bible and those who do not.

If you seek anything spiritual, you find something spiritual.

if you seek to identify with spirituality, you will find it.

And yet, I'm not spiritually hungry.
I feel no spiritual hunger whatsoever. Never have... likely, never will. What now?

move on to the next topic.

[pocaracas]

Damn, man... you're really set in that thing, aren't you?

This is turning into a Statler-Waldorf kind of reply!
WHY? What's his problem? Why can't he just present himself as the being that you claim he is?

He does, just to those who earnestly seek Him.

Explain what physical things does he do when those who earnestly seek him get to witness?

Why the mental charade?

You answer is as simple as answering The meaning of life. This life was given to us so we may know in our hearts where we stand in relation of desire to serve and worship God.

What?
Life given to us?
Life's ultimate purpose is to carry on the genes. Everything else is is extra.
How do bacteria "know in [their] hearts where [they] stand in relation of desire to serve and worship God."?

If the Glory of God was known to all of us then the vast majority would seek God not to love and worship but to save themselves from Hell.

AHAHAHAH, I remember you spewing this before...
It still fails the test.
Let's see how many people are actually claimed to have had god seek them out:
- Moses... did he turn?
- Noah
- Abraham
- the freaking apostles!!
How many of those "in the know", according to the story, turned fearful of hell?

Why do you then make that assumption about the rest of mankind? Oh, ye of little faith!

Again which would defeat the purpose of the time we have been given here. As it is only those who Seek to love and worship God find Him.

It still doesn't make sense...
Why should I hear about that god from lowly humans? Why would I read about it from the flawed and timed writings of lowly humans?

Humility/service. Once saved we are not equals. we are servants./slaves Slaves/servants get told what to do.

That's how people fall for cons... how do you know you're not a victim?

God delivered what was promised... That BTW is how one seperates a Con from a genuinly Good Deal. (Whether or not you get what has been promised.)

The con worked on you so well, you still think you got a good deal out of it!
Don't worry about it... it's designed to work that way.
Those desert goat herders knew a thing or two about control of human minds.
And, after more than 2000 years, they still manage to control minds... amazing!

Truth should bear some resemblance with reality.

If truth does not resemble reality re-examine the variables. In that have you accounted for ALL Of them. In this case I can think of three you have not.

There's the sun and moon... the Earth, the mantle... pressure, gravity, chemistry, biology... it all works... sans god!

The reality I observe, the reality you observe, the reality that the chinese from 4000 years ago observed.

In what way can this be true? Have you observed all that I have? Has a chinaman who lived 4000 years ago observed what you have? No. of course not. This is why your 'reality' does not resemble the Truth.

My eyes capture light just as well as yours, I hope.
My hands feel touch, cold and hot just as well as yours.
My ears hear in surround sound just as well as yours.
My nose and taste buds may work a bit differently, as I can't stand the smell of incense nor the taste of alcohol... but, for the most part, they're similar.
The same applies for the 4000 year old chinese.
What would you or the chinese have observed that I can't?

Wut?!
Faith transformed to belief?
Try to explain that without metaphors, so I can understand what you mean.

Faith=believeing without seeing.
Belief in this instance refers to evidence based belief. Trials turn a faith based belief into a belief based on evidence.

Going down the rabbit hole...
What you call "trials" is what people usually refer to as "life". It's not all rosy and pink unicorns... sometimes it gets downright ugly.
Shit happens, life goes on, except for those that die.

You got lucky a few times and attribute your luck to a god.
That doesn't mean that there was any god pulling the strings. That doesn't mean that there is any god at all.

It's like Rod said: Some guys get all the luck, some guys get all the breaks.
Some guys do nothing but complain.

Knoweledge commands pride and ownership of said knowlwedge. God and man's pride can not coexist.
When you truly humble yourself all that you have you understand has been given as a gift, and that you/I am not the source of said knoweledge/wisdom but just a conduit.

Sounds like a cop out.

actually it sounds like James 4:10 and 1 peter 5:6

Why can't god and man's pride coexist?

Why should it. God is the ultimate authority on everything in creation. What does man have to be proud of when He has been told to be humble?

Been told?
Been told?!?!
It gets ridiculous how you keep in your delusional state!
Been told?!
By whom??
How??
When??

Is there any logical rule that even god can't break regarding pride?
If there is, how would you know about it?

God has broken the pride of man before, in prophets, and those willing to lay it down before him. But in both cases the one to be hummbled must already belong to Him.

huh?
Are you telling me that there have been people who managed to instill, in others, that humbling feeling?
I can't deny it.
But I fail to see any god in there... These so-called prophets were conning people... either on purpose, or unwittingly.

Hmmm... let me look at this world and see what's more likely:
- People conning the masses to gain power and control over them
- god sending messages to a certain select few individuals who then spread those messages (a bit skewed, due to interpretation in the guy's mind) to the masses

Oh, and don't forget to bear in mind that these people all emanated from a rather small geographical location.
This sounds so close to a ponzi scheme... so close!

Let's say you contract a non-fatal, but chronic wound, like... lose a leg. god walks thousands through that trial every day... none of them have grown a leg back.

what makes you think God is limited to only make a new leg grow in place of the old one?

The fact that no human has ever regrown a limb or any other bone in their bodies.
Not to mention damaged nerves... also, no human has ever repaired his own nerves.
Research into stem cells can help there... but it seems a few christians are against it...

Diseases and other things we can't actually see and fully understand how they work, due to their complexity or small scale, cannot have cures and effects attributed to any god, for it will be considered "god of the gaps".

So.. in your world God can not exist in the gaps?

Because in mine, God not only exists in the gaps He also exists in the known world. Meaning God is not just limited to the unknown, but can be seen in conventional knoweledge as well.

In my world, believers put god in gaps of scientific knowledge... and try to poke hole in the wall of science to shove god into those holes...

It's all believers. No god involved. No actual god required... only the belief... and humans do the rest.
It's a bit scary, you know?

Then let him produce himself.

All anyone need do is humble himself to God and allow Him to lift you up.

No. According to the book, in the beginning, there was no such need. It shouldn't be a requirement now.... unless... it's a con.

Considering how humanity has evolved from primates, at some point, if there is such a being, it must have contacted humans and relayed his message onto them.
Let him do the same with me and all, if he wishes me to acknowledge his existence.
If he does not wish it, then just carry on.

this is the pride in which I speak. Do you think the leader of your nation would do such a thing, and personally beg for your vote? Why would a being far superior to any man be forced to seek you out and ask that you serve Him? Again why wouldn't he simply see you to Hell or make the demand you seek Him out?

Because if He sought you where would it stop? New car, New House, Better Job/Lottery win??? I'm not anywhere near God and I can see how foolish it would be to chase after us.

You think small... it's cute... you always end up in the same sort of analogies.
Any and all analogies are faulty when you wish to apply them to the supreme being.
Sure, it would do whatever it pleases... it wouldn't be my servant, nor my genie.
But, if it wants me to acknowledge its existence, then it must show up without me being convinced of it beforehand.
If I'm already convinced of the guy's existence, then my mind will retrofit any strange and fortuitous event as an interaction of that being, as is patent in your own life.... and so many others'.

Also, according to the story, it did show up for a lot of people in the poor, rural, desolate places of the middle-east. And if it is as knowledgeable as you, christians, like to portray it, then it should have known that those sporadic appearances wouldn't be enough to convince people thousands of miles away from those places and thousands of years away from those occurrences. Why reach a few people who would then pass on the stories in an oral fashion only to be written after who knows how many changes and tweaks, until it was finally written in a fixed format?... and even that wasn't as fixed as would be ideal.
Unless.... it was a con.

hmmm... do you have a photo of such a "show up"?

I can take a picture of our new facility that we just moved into if you like.. we are paying around 5 dollars a square foot in our current location where as our neighbors are paying 25 dollars a square foot.

I know your money says god in it, but... I don't think it counts!
Try again, now do it for an actual interaction with the divine you claim to show up.

What you have provided is not what "god offers me", but what someone wrote in the bible about that god.

One sure way to tell if the offer extends to you or not. (Take Him up on said offer properly)

I can't do that until we've established that the guy exists.
Until then, I wouldn't be able to distinguish my own wishful thinking about such a magical creature, from some fortuitous event completely unrelated to any divinity.
And, of course, my wishful thinking would take over... like it did with you.

And you believe in the contents of the bible, hence, you believe that the god offers anything.

I believe the bible because trial after trial hardship after hardship the principles and promises contained in it ring out to be true.

Of course they did... it was craftily written, at some point.
If you take a believer, the contents of that book will only yield confirmation of that belief.
That doesn't mean that it has any bearing on the reality of the existence of any god... but it works wonders on the belief of that existence.
The fact that you can't see it, is perfect evidence that it works really well!
(I'd worry about myself, if someone told me something like this... will you?)

Don't turn things around, man.
First and foremost, thus far, you have let us know this: you believe in the bible. (specifically the NT... the OT is nasty and needs some cherry picking, am I right?)

Nuupe. all of it. However as I am not an OT Jew it does not all apply to me. Remember 2 dictinct religions are being repersented here.

Wait, wait, wait.... so... the bible, the whole book, the christian bible is only related to the NT? What's the OT doing there, then?

And yet, all those valleys can be attributed to natural causes, as well as the climbing out of them.

If you were to take anyone situation and apply it to anyone this could be easily explained away as a natural part of life. But, as some of your peers can even attest the level and sheer volume of 'crap' that I've been through makes it seem unlikly that I am telling the truth in everything that I have reported here.. I know some are even doubting the whole cancer scare I have been going through for the last 6 months. Even members of my own church can sometimes think it is all too much and I am 'streaching the truth.' But, in truth I have experenced and endured much more..
Comming out on top or better when one goes into a situation is unique to what God has promised.

So, you're a lucky fellow. It happens.
There aren't many like you, but it happens.
You should try the roulette.
I once wrote a small program to simulate playing the roulette, betting on blacks or whites. If the last spin landed on a white, then I bet on a black until it lands on a black. And then the same for the whites. It turns out that, because of the green 00 (and I hear some american casinos have two green places) the odds are not 50/50 for the whites and blacks... furthermore, in order to win anything, after each failed bet, you'd have to bet twice as much as you bet in the previous spin....
This means that, if you bet one dollar on white and black comes... the next bet, you put in $2.... if that fails, you put in $4, if that fails, you put in $8, and so on, and so on...
On my tiny program, I could define how much cash I had to start with. If I started with $1000 I could stand up to some 9 losses in a row... in a row! This streak always happened, sooner or later, and I'd lose all the $1000.
The best winnings I saw were of about $20.... come in with $1000, leave with $1020.

I could start with $1 000 000! and, still, the house would win.

However, it is possible that you get a winning streak and turn the $1000 into $2000. It is possible... or, as you like to write, possiable
It's not likely, but possible.
With 7 billion people in the world, the possibility of having your streak of good luck is bound to happen to someone... a few... not many.
You attribute it to a god... others will do so too... I wouldn't.

Why should I even consider the option of a god, if no one had come up with that concept before me?

There is no reason to consider God unless you look forward to an eternity of service.

Really?
Can you hear yourself?
An eternity of service?
Who looks forward to that?!?!

Didn't I say something about Newton, before?

Didn't I point back to the parable itself and reillustrate how A/S/K is a fundemental way humanity seeks out need? Now ask yourself is what newton discovered based off of basic need?

No, it's not. ASK presupposes the answer.
Newton had the answer fall on his head. This is why I keep asking that your god show up, just like Newton's apple showed up, unannounced, unexpected, undesired, unasked-for, unsought-after, unknocked-over.... and to spectacular results!

If you seek anything spiritual, you find something spiritual.

if you seek to identify with spirituality, you will find it.

That's what I've been saying all along!!

And yet, I'm not spiritually hungry.
I feel no spiritual hunger whatsoever. Never have... likely, never will. What now?

move on to the next topic.

ooops... moving on...