Eternal punishment is pointless.

[The Valkyrie]

If men are saved because God loves us, what about the men that are sent to Hell, does God not love them?

How many more times are you going to ignore what has been stated, God loved the ones who will choose hell over heaven by the sacrifice of his Son for them. To give them the chance they ultimately have not or will not choose.

GC

Gotcha.

More religious white noise.

[Godscreated]

How do you remove the God that's eternal, one with no rival?

Yet god himself disagrees with you in certain parts of the bible.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me" implies there are others, as well as this quote: "Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God."

If there wasn't any competition going on, god needn't be worried.

God doesn't disagree with what I said, it's you who disagree. You yourself know that God was talking about idols of stone and wood, money, love of self and ect.
God isn't worried, explain how a omniscient God would worry. God's concern is for the people who go in the wrong direction and could find themselves in trouble. Yes God is jealous and why not, it's Him who created them and gave them life. If not for Him they would not even be alive.
Now answer this, who is a rival to God that could do Him in?

God did sacrifice His life so that everyone could be saved, however that salvation couldn't come without His resurrection.

So to whom did he sacrifice his life? To himself obviously, since the father, the son and the holy spirit are one. The resurrection of an all powerful being, temporarily giving up one aspect of his trinity, isn't all that impressive.

He wasn't trying to impress you, He wanted to give you a chance at salvation and it cost the Son his life so you could have that opportunity. I guess you missed the part of scripture that says Christ faced the cross as a sinless man, but since you nor I are sinless we could not understand what that means. We are all up in arms when an innocent man is put to death for a crime he did not commit, yet you make fun of Jesus dying on the cross and He was completely innocent.
Christ was sacrificed for mankind, the blood He spilled was to cover our sin, it took perfection that we are not capable of to save those who desired salvation.
You want to make a big deal out of not being impress, Christ gave up everything when He came here in human form, He gave up his power, his place of sovereignty and every thing else He enjoyed in heaven.

GC

[abaris]

So I repeat my question for the third time: What is your definition of the trinity?

God doesn't disagree with what I said, it's you who disagree. You yourself know that God was talking about idols of stone and wood, money, love of self and ect.

No, I don't know that. Another one of your crowd of preachers claimed differently when presented with the same quotes. He was talking about christian politheism.

So, which is it? Make up your minds and come to a common conclusion. All I see are different takes on the same subject. So, who's right.

And once again: Your take on the trinity please.

[Godscreated]

The fault of not understanding the trinity is yours not mine.

You wrote: "God did sacrifice His life [...]".

Was your god dead for three days? Did he actually "sacrifice his life"?

Answer the question.

The Son was dead for three days, haven't you ever read the scriptures, if not why are you trying to arguing them, if you have you certainly haven't learned a thing.

[Chad32]

I don't make fun of Jesus for being killed. I condemn Yahweh for killing his son just so he can have a loophole around his own rules. Or if you believe that Jesus and Yahweh are the same, pulling a useless stunt that did nothing but soothe his own ego.

I do not want an innocent person to shed blood for me. I'll take responsibility for my own actions. If your god demands eternal punishment for finite crimes, he isn't worth my worship anyway.

[abaris]

The Son was dead for three days, haven't you ever read the scriptures, if not why are you trying to arguing them, if you have you certainly haven't learned a thing.

Once again, since this is getting pretty tiresome. Your take on the trinity, if you so please.

We all have read the bible, we all have listened to preachers of different denominations. And we all have had the trinity rubbed in our faces.

So, again - your take.

[The Grand Nudger]

He wasn't trying to impress you,

Good..because "impressive" isn't the word I'd use for what you claim.....

Christ was sacrificed for mankind, the blood He spilled was to cover our sin, it took perfection that we are not capable of to save those who desired salvation.

Yeah, the answer to our moral failings was, apparently, to kill a better man than ourselves...... Who thought that this would be a good idea again?

[Godscreated]

---

Like I said you need to study the scriptures and you would find out how far off you are from the truth.
God did create hell, first for Satan and the fallen angels, then when man (Adam) sinned, man with unforgiven sin will join them in the eternal punishment. The way of man seems right unto man, and the way of God seems wrong. There is a flaw in that kind of thinking, man has a fallible mind and God is omniscient.
Have you asked God to forgive you through Jesus Christ, no, then you really do not desire the forgiveness. When one understands the terribleness of sin against God one desires forgiveness of that sin and in honor of God's forgiveness one desires to worship Him, salvation is the beginning of a relationship. A truly loving God doesn't let people off the hook, He helps them to realize the consequences of their wrong actions, if they will listen.

---

The way of god doesn't SEEM wrong to us. It's empirically proven wrong. Slavery is wrong. Genocide is wrong. Blind, unquestioning obedience to authority is wrong.

You're trying to bring God down to our fallible level, God as creator necessarily has rights we do not. God doesn't ask us to blindly follow Him, unlike the scientist you put your belief in, why do you think He gave us his word. He does expect us to follow Him without questioning some things because we are to and should trust an omniscient being. Man made slavery and it was those idol worshipers that turned from God who did. As the creator of all life God has the right to take it back when He determines it's necessary. You have no empirical proof of anything about God, because you can't bring proof against something you believe doesn't exist.

The "terrible sin" you're talking about was us using free will. the whole point of freedom is the ability to do things other people don't like.

No, your wrong. The "terrible sin" was using free will to disobey God.
No, the point of freedom is to treat others with love and kindness, just as we want to be treated. I feel fairly certain that most of the men and women who have given their lives for this country would have to defend your definition of freedom, because that is exactly what they were fighting against.

Doing it without consequence, as long as they aren't hurting other people, is the definition of freedom. Freedom of speech is my freedom to say thing you don't like, meaning you don't get to kill me for heresy just because I don't buy into your beliefs.

Why would you believe I would want to kill you, I believe in "turn the other cheek" when it comes to my Christian beliefs. There are consequences for ever wrong action no matter how free you feel you are entitled. You slander someone and see how free you are, they may own all you have.

Obviously your god never wanted us to disobey him.

There's nothing obvious to that statement, what is obvious is you're desperate for things to say in this argument, so you just make things up. You should read and study the Bible before trying to argue with those who use it for their daily lives, it's important to us to have it right as we possibly can.

If so, he should have made us robots. Then we wouldn't have "sinned".

If He made us robots then where is the love in a relationship, neither one would exist if we were robots. If you were a robot you would find a way to complain about that too. Happiness and love with God is the reason for our free will, you haven't exercised that option, it's why you have no understanding.

If he wanted us to have free will, he should allow us to use it. If he thinks socity is going downhill because of it, the right thing to do is work out the problems to make society better. Not start killing people en masse.

Contradicting yourself in this one, you want Him to make things better and still give us free will to make mistakes. Trying to have your cake and eat it on this one, shame on you.
God did allow the use of man's free will and still does, that's why we are in the mess we are. God cleansed the earth of total corruption with the flood so future generations could come to know Him and the wonderful life He has for us.

Man has a fallible mind. We have no reason to believe that Yahweh's mind is infallible.

That's why our minds are fallible, we do not trust in what God wants for our lives.

GC

[Ryantology]

FAF ,the granting of forgiveness in our personal relationships always has some basis.
Think about it.
If someone violates you, do you offer that person blanket forgiveness without regard to their attitude and behavior?
Or is there a reason you forgive?

I carry no grudges against anyone. I forgive people who have wronged me even when they don't deserve it. Why? Because holding a grudge is pointless. It accomplishes nothing and makes me feel unnecessarily negative.

Now, we Christians are told to forgive without regard to the other person's stance because Christ forgave us-and paid for our missing the mark- that is our basis. And that basis is predicated upon our actively taking His pardon.

It's pretty much common sense that Christians would be a lot better about doing that if their God set that example for them to follow. Your god undermines his own authority by being inconsistent. It's his own fault.

But I am not talking about us in the question I ask, this is about how people like yourself deal with offenses.
Is there not a basis for forgiveness?
It seem obvious there is.
So how can you expect God to extend blanket pardons when you will not do it?

How do you expect us to believe that your god is perfect and superior when you make so many excuses for why he behaves in a way nobody finds acceptable even in inferior beings such as ourselves? Why is it so crazy to expect better from a superior being?

I know you guys come here thinking that you're going to find that perfect converting checkmate of an argument, but all you're doing is coming to a group of people who already don't go for your belief system and demonstrate, over and over, exactly why our complaints about it are entirely valid.

[Godscreated]

Just to be clear on some of the issues. So that we're on the same page. I would like to hear some definition of trinity from our christian friends. I know what my catholic upbringing told me, but what about you?

I gave it in another post you were involved in, if you do not read and learn what I believe it's your fault.

GC