Posts: 2344
Threads: 79
Joined: November 18, 2014
Reputation:
42
RE: I Really Hate The Concept Of Free Will
November 26, 2014 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: November 26, 2014 at 1:01 pm by Nope.)
The story of Lucifer and his rebellion destroys the reason for humans to have free will. Lucifer lived in heaven and yet still rebelled. Because Lucifer was able to rebel, he and the other angels must have free will. According to the mythology, angels can reside in heaven, in god's presence and decide whether to love him or not.
The entire reason that humans are given free will is so that they can make a decision to love god without any influence from his presence. Yet, if god is so great and wonderful that humans would automatically love him if they were in his presence, why were the fallen angels able to decide to not love god?
The story of Lucifer and his rebellion destroys the reason for humans to have free will. Lucifer lived in heaven and yet still rebelled. Because Lucifer was able to rebel, he and the other angels must have free will. According to the mythology, angels can reside in heaven, in god's presence and decide whether to love him or not.
The reason that humans are given free will is so that they can make a decision to love god without any influence from his presence. Yet, if god is so glorious that humans would automatically love him if they were in his presence, why were the fallen angels able to decide to not love god?
Posts: 7140
Threads: 12
Joined: March 14, 2013
Reputation:
72
RE: I Really Hate The Concept Of Free Will
November 26, 2014 at 1:27 pm
(November 26, 2014 at 12:59 pm)Nope Wrote: The story of Lucifer and his rebellion destroys the reason for humans to have free will. Lucifer lived in heaven and yet still rebelled.
That's a good point. We can point out that Adam and Eve were dropped into a situation that was tailor-made for them to fail (no knowledge of good and evil, the tree within reach, the serpent's deception). But what of Satan, and those angels who followed him on his path? What was their setup? They were in heaven! They were in the presence of The Almighty Lord God Yahweh himself! No trees! No serpents! Just the unlimited creamy goodness of god's happy disposition raining upon them at all times!
...
and they rejected it.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: I Really Hate The Concept Of Free Will
November 26, 2014 at 8:12 pm
Probably got a sneak peak at his "plan for man".
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 56
Threads: 4
Joined: December 4, 2014
Reputation:
6
RE: I Really Hate The Concept Of Free Will
December 4, 2014 at 8:04 pm
(November 22, 2014 at 4:25 pm)Nope Wrote: When I was a Christian, I thought that freewill was a lovely concept. Of course, the god that I worshiped didn't want his followers to be robots! As I got older, I began to follow some of my ideas to their logical conclusion.
Most Christians will say that their god gave humans free will so that they would freely decide to worship and love him. Awww....who could be upset with that
However, the same free will is responsible for humans doing sometimes unimaginably horrible things to one another.
For a time, I was happy with the answer that a perfect god does not allow evil but that human's free will is the cause of cruelty. Then one day I made the connection. We have free will, according to Christians, because god wants love. That means that babies are raped because god wants love. That is really sick.
After that, I could not believe in the Christian concept of god and that was one of the many things that started my slow movement away from faith.
I was just curious if any of you had considered how twisted the idea of free will and its consequences are?
Free Will is grossly overpriced.
Formerly Old Man Marsh of TTA
"Don't let those gnomes and illusions get you down. They're just gnomes and illusions."
--Jake the Dog
![[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-d-3rfdI7nG0%2FTerwtFyFXoI%2FAAAAAAAACak%2F7kFSmHeVrng%2Fs320%2FBumper%2BSticker%2B-%2BAsheville%2B-%2BPraise%2BDog3.JPG)
