MERGED: The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ (Part 1) & (Part 2)

[abaris]

To be entirely honest I don't understand why he is having such a hard time with this. I mean strip away all the fluff from the gospels and you basically have a 2000 year old Joseph Smith. Nothing extraordinary about that, the roman empire was full nutty cults and cult leaders.

Exactly.

Let's move on already.

[Minimalist]

James Tabor. A real quack, arguing for a Jesus dynasty.

James Tabor supports Simcha Jacobovici's asinine 'jesus tomb' in Talpiot. His credibility has thus taken a severe hit.

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In 1996 the Jesus Seminar released its analysis of xtian bullshit.

http://www.westarinstitute.org/projects/...-of-jesus/

Even this collection of theological con men found that:

Of the 176 events examined:

Only ten were given a red rating (indicating that the Fellows had a relatively high level of confidence that the event actually took place)
Nineteen were colored pink (suggesting that the event probably occurred)

The combined number of red and pink events (29) amounts to 16% of the total (176). That is slightly lower than the 18% of the sayings—primarily parables and aphorisms—assigned to the red and pink categories in The Five Gospels.

The deeds of Jesus the Fellows voted as most likely to be authentic are:

The Beelzebul controversy
A voice in the wilderness
John Baptizes Jesus
Jesus proclaims the good news
Peter’s mother-in-law
The leper
Paralytic and four
Call of Levi
Dining with sinners
Sabbath observance

Why these particular pieces of shit are considered authentic and other pieces of shit are not is a mystery as all derive from the same source. Nonetheless, when studied by leading jesus freaks of the day it looks like old jebus didn't do so well even among his biggest fans.

Imagine what WE think of them!

[DeistPaladin]

To be entirely honest I don't understand why he is having such a hard time with this. I mean strip away all the fluff from the gospels and you basically have a 2000 year old Joseph Smith. Nothing extraordinary about that, the roman empire was full nutty cults and cult leaders.

This too is why I've become a Jesus Mooter. Beyond the fact that I've grown fatigued with dancing the Scholars Say Shuffle a million times, this is the debate they want to have, which is why he isn't moving on.

They want to be able to appeal to scholarly consensus for a change, to spend the whole debate however long it lasts posting "scholars say..." over and over again, to try to paint the skeptic as the screwball and to shift the burden of proof in to their court with a little slight-of-hand.

Everyone has noticed I hope that as soon as I said, "OK, some guy named Yeshua lived around that time, was a cult leader and ran afoul of Roman authorities; now prove all the claims of divinity and miracles" he immediately started ignoring me. He's well aware he has jack shit for evidence apart from some fallacious appeals to folklore and a few arguments from personal incredulity.

[Lemonvariable72]

To be entirely honest I don't understand why he is having such a hard time with this. I mean strip away all the fluff from the gospels and you basically have a 2000 year old Joseph Smith. Nothing extraordinary about that, the roman empire was full nutty cults and cult leaders.

This too is why I've become a Jesus Mooter. Beyond the fact that I've grown fatigued with dancing the Scholars Say Shuffle a million times, this is the debate they want to have, which is why he isn't moving on.

They want to be able to appeal to scholarly consensus for a change, to spend the whole debate however long it lasts posting "scholars say..." over and over again, to try to paint the skeptic as the screwball and to shift the burden of proof in to their court with a little slight-of-hand.

Everyone has noticed I hope that as soon as I said, "OK, some guy named Yeshua lived around that time, was a cult leader and ran afoul of Roman authorities; now prove all the claims of divinity and miracles" he immediately started ignoring me. He's well aware he has jack shit for evidence apart from some fallacious appeals to folklore and a few arguments from personal incredulity.

I agree. This is why I'm eager to see part 2

[Esquilax]

Everyone has noticed I hope that as soon as I said, "OK, some guy named Yeshua lived around that time, was a cult leader and ran afoul of Roman authorities; now prove all the claims of divinity and miracles" he immediately started ignoring me. He's well aware he has jack shit for evidence apart from some fallacious appeals to folklore and a few arguments from personal incredulity.

Same reason he shifted focus the moment I pointed out the second hand nature of all his sources, and now we're endlessly talking about (and shifting between whenever it's convenient for him) abiogenesis and consciousness. Randomly switching topics seems to be H_M's go to tactic, and I think we can tell which ones have really hit home when we just don't hear about them again after they've been brought up.

[Cyberman]

Similarly he dropped Josephus like a hot brick after some of us picked at the glue holding it together.

[DeistPaladin]

I agree. This is why I'm eager to see part 2

Assuming it ever comes, here's my prediction:

1. "Would they have died for a lie?"
2. "The accounts of his resurrection happened too soon to be a lie."
3. "Nobody cried 'FALSE' with the accounts, which must mean it's true."
4. "Jerusalem was real. Pilate was real. So..."
5. "The tomb is empty. So how'd that happen, huh?"
6. "Women were the first witnesses, which they wouldn't have done if it had been a lie."
7. "Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic or he was LORD".

Do I need to take these arguments apart? The flaws should be obvious.

Hey HM, did I miss anything?

[Cyberman]

The empty tomb is my favourite; I do hope it comes up again. "Look - there it isn't!"

It's like a popular character in an American sitcom. It gets a round of applause every time it appears.

[abaris]

It's like a popular character in an American sitcom. It gets a round of applause every time it appears.

Can't wait for the empty non existing tomb with it's different descriptions in the gospels.

[pocaracas]

Oh, I like the women best.