The mind brain connection

[Captain Scarlet]

It used to be thought that we had an immaterial essence independent of our material bodies. The so called soul of substance dualism. We now know that this is false and the mind (a term which seems to have replaced the soul) is infact hardwired to our bodies, that is we cannot exist without the material hardware of the brain. This is best seen in the advances of modern medical science. There are many unfortunate cases of people suffering brain injury and their personality changing. Clearly if we had an immaterial essence this would be untroubled by brain injury. So two problems for Christians : 1) what part of us survives death, 2) god is envisaged as an immaterial mind which there is evidence against.

[fr0d0]

Mt 22:37 “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

'Mind' never replaced 'Soul'. I've heard that a lot, and consider it a misconception.

[Captain Scarlet]

Mt 22:37 “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’

'Mind' never replaced 'Soul'. I've heard that a lot, and consider it a misconception.

Thanks frodo I didn't know that verse. So to help what is the soul and what is the mind and which if any survive death? Surely if we survive death it is the mind? However can we answer the problem above? Because in any case the problem is still there soul and/or mind. In addition the problem of a disembodied mind being falsified ( ie god) is unaddressed.

[fr0d0]

Ok talking xtian theology...

The soul is : independent of the physical body; timeless; influenced by us; can contain God.

Nothing of the mind survives death.

The problem of a disembodied mind being falsified ( ie god) is unaddressed.

This is a deliberate part of the religious construct. ie the falsification should not be possible according to the reasoning of the construct.

[Captain Scarlet]

Ok talking xtian theology...

The soul is : independent of the physical body; timeless; influenced by us; can contain God.

Nothing of the mind survives death.

The problem of a disembodied mind being falsified ( ie god) is unaddressed.

This is a deliberate part of the religious construct. ie the falsification should not be possible according to the reasoning of the construct.

So in your view if the argument goes through for the falsification of a disembodied mind, does this falsify the god concept?
In addition if the mind does not survive death, does the soul? If so what essence of our being is preserved?

[The Omnissiunt One]

If nothing of the mind survives death, it's not meaningful to say that we survive death. Everything we associate with a person is a part of his or her mind: personality, intelligence, emotions, etc. A disembodied spirit may as well be anybody.

[Minimalist]

Nothing of the mind survives death.

Fixed that for you, Frods.

[fr0d0]

Sorry I don't know If I was clear there. The soul, as well as God, should not be externally verifiable according to the construct of the religion.

No I don't think that the mind survives death, as it's co-existent with the physical. I think the soul is the essence of our being. It's part of our physical makeup that is influenced by us and outlives us. I think it's the aspect of humans alluded to by references to "man in God's image".

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If nothing of the mind survives death, it's not meaningful to say that we survive death. Everything we associate with a person is a part of his or her mind: personality, intelligence, emotions, etc. A disembodied spirit may as well be anybody.

Spirit and soul are two different things. The soul is an attempt to describe what is the essence of you, and not what is contained within your mind.

[solja247]

It used to be thought that we had an immaterial essence independent of our material bodies. The so called soul of substance dualism. We now know that this is false and the mind (a term which seems to have replaced the soul) is infact hardwired to our bodies, that is we cannot exist without the material hardware of the brain. This is best seen in the advances of modern medical science. There are many unfortunate cases of people suffering brain injury and their personality changing. Clearly if we had an immaterial essence this would be untroubled by brain injury. So two problems for Christians : 1) what part of us survives death, 2) god is envisaged as an immaterial mind which there is evidence against.

The idea that our soul goes to some sought of after life is based on pagan understanding what happens when you die. What you will see throughout the entire Ot and NT is that the Jews either believed that nothing happened when you died (Sadducces) or that there was an afterlife (Pharisees). For Hebrew theology a body + breath of life, created a LIVING soul (Genesis 2:7). If you dont have a body, you have no soul. It was only until Christianity lost its Jewish roots and became pagan that the idea of ones soul going to an afterlife became mainstream in Christianity.

I persoanally believe that when one dies they are dead, or sleeping, untill Jesus returns.
Through out the NT the early Christians rarely wrote about heaven. Their wait and anticipation was based on the second coming of Jesus, the resurrection.
Note: Revelation does not describe heaven either, only the new Earth. (Revelation 21)

[fr0d0]

solja247, what is this 'sleeping' dead person and what happens when Jesus comes back? Do you mean people will be made alive again?