The mind brain connection

[lrh9]

If nothing of the mind survives death, it's not meaningful to say that we survive death. Everything we associate with a person is a part of his or her mind: personality, intelligence, emotions, etc. A disembodied spirit may as well be anybody.

[Minimalist]

untill Jesus returns.

He can't return if he wasn't here before.

[solja247]

solja247, what is this 'sleeping' dead person and what happens when Jesus comes back? Do you mean people will be made alive again?

This sleeping of the dead is based on Hebrew theology.

1 Thessalonians 4
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

Daniel 12

1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise [a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

Ecclesiastes 9
3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope [b] —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.

Acts 23
6Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, "My brothers, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee. I stand on trial because of my hope in the resurrection of the dead." 7When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. 8(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)

I think these verses explain it well, however if you have anymore questions I would be glad to help.

[fr0d0]

Thanks for that sol. It sorta parallels other ideas doesn't it? ...that we don't get to 'heaven' straight away. So like the Sadducees do you deny angels and spirits as well? I'm wondering how you reconcile some stuff to do with the soul.

[The Omnissiunt One]

So, if we are given resurrection bodies, which is my understanding of what is alleged will happen, does that not indicate that material bodies are needed for a mind? And how can material beings dwell in the immaterial realm of heaven?

For dualists: what is the soul? Is it just some sort of consciousness, devoid of emotions and personality?

[tackattack]

Before I'll even get into the difference between mind and soul... you first have to prove that the brain and the mind are exclusively codependent and neither can function without the other. Specifically, How can you prove that the mind (everything we call the self, id, ego, identity, etc.) dies when the brain dies, and what evidence do you have to support it conclusively?

[Captain Scarlet]

Before I'll even get into the difference between mind and soul... you first have to prove that the brain and the mind are exclusively codependent and neither can function without the other. Specifically, How can you prove that the mind (everything we call the self, id, ego, identity, etc.) dies when the brain dies, and what evidence do you have to support it conclusively?

No I don't because i don't have a burden of proof concerning immaterial constructs surviving death. That is something for the philosophy of mind to take up with theology. I just need to disprove substance dualism which advocates there are completely separate material stuff (brain) and immaterial stuff (mind/soul) which theism requires for an afterlife. The evidence against dualism are:

- individuals suffering brain damage can experience personality changes. Something unexpected in dualism
- causation of mind and brain would mean that every time we decided to do anything in dualism a miracle occured as the immaterial mind interacted with the material brain. There is no known way for this to happen.
- occams razer would suggest we should not propose 2 entities when 1 is sufficient

[Edwardo Piet]

Before I'll even get into the difference between mind and soul... you first have to prove that the brain and the mind are exclusively codependent and neither can function without the other. Specifically, How can you prove that the mind (everything we call the self, id, ego, identity, etc.) dies when the brain dies, and what evidence do you have to support it conclusively?

We have evidence that the brain, of course, exists. As does consciousness. We also have evidence that consciousness is effected when the brain is. So, to apply Occam's Razor to that.... why should we assume that there is any "Mind" in addition to the brain if such an assumption is unnecessary? It's important to postulate fewer unnecessary entities/complexity without evidence to back it up, if we are to be rational, surely?

[Captain Scarlet]

@evidence. Great minds think alike ;-)

[The Omnissiunt One]

Great brains, don't you mean?