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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 4:56 pm
No assumptions are needed to be an atheist. Now in regards to knowledge, of course, all that must be assumed is that at least some (or one) things are more ascertainable than others.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 4:56 pm
Sure I mean, if theists want to start collapsing into solipsism or questioning logic, then they automatically lose. Once you do that, you have thrown away all your tools.
I agree, we only need base assumptions that they too need to make to even address us with a claim.
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 4:57 pm
The only assumption I have to make is that hard solipsism is not true.
This assumption does not change for strong or weak atheism, nor theism.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 5:40 pm
(This post was last modified: March 31, 2015 at 5:50 pm by Pizza.)
Maybe not even that. All I need is: Doubting; therefore, doubting exists.
I mostly bring this question up because in debates Christians will frame the debate as naturalism vs theism; furthermore, apologists will make it seem like the atheists and agnostics are committed to a worldview and that atheism/agnosticism do or dies based on that view. If naturalism is inadequate then atheism is inadequate; however, I see no good reason to assume that at all. An atheist/agnostic could be a non-naturalist, supernaturalist, or none of the above.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 6:12 pm
(This post was last modified: March 31, 2015 at 6:13 pm by JuliaL.)
How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
To what end?
For the outcome which results from no assumptions, no assumptions are needed.
So how, exactly, does God know that She's NOT a brain in a vat?
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 6:56 pm
(March 31, 2015 at 5:40 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: furthermore, apologists will make it seem like the atheists and agnostics are committed to a worldview and that atheism/agnosticism do or dies based on that view. If naturalism is inadequate then atheism is inadequate; however, I see no good reason to assume that at all. An atheist/agnostic could be a non-naturalist, supernaturalist, or none of the above.
That's because many Christians think of the world by means of very primitive concepts. How can nuance exist in texts believed to be written as a life guide by the supremely wise Creator of the Universe? It doesn't. It means what it says and it says what it means, and you either accept it all or deny it all. This was the mindset in the churches I grew up in, and that lack of critical and careful division of terms doesn't cease when they view contrary opinions.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
March 31, 2015 at 7:13 pm
(March 31, 2015 at 5:40 pm)Pizz-atheist Wrote: Maybe not even that. All I need is: Doubting; therefore, doubting exists.
I doubt, therefore I am.
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
April 1, 2015 at 4:02 am
Even if solipsism is true, the worst I'm doing is arguing with a figment of my imagination. So I'm not too concerned about that!
I'll beat the shit out of that ignorant figment.
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
April 1, 2015 at 5:17 am
(March 31, 2015 at 6:56 pm)Nestor Wrote: That's because many Christians think of the world by means of very primitive concepts. How can nuance exist in texts believed to be written as a life guide by the supremely wise Creator of the Universe? It doesn't. It means what it says and it says what it means, and you either accept it all or deny it all. This was the mindset in the churches I grew up in, and that lack of critical and careful division of terms doesn't cease when they view contrary opinions. In fairness, most people are bad at careful division; however, most people are religious....I don't know what to make of that.
(April 1, 2015 at 4:02 am)robvalue Wrote: Even if solipsism is true, the worst I'm doing is arguing with a figment of my imagination. So I'm not too concerned about that!
I'll beat the shit out of that ignorant figment. The more I think of them the less scary many of these views are to me. Solipsism doesn't actually affect anything in practice. nor does being a brain in a vat, nor being systematically deceived by Descartes' evil demon.
It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley, but to believe or not believe in God is not important at all. - Denis Diderot
We are the United States of Amnesia, we learn nothing because we remember nothing. - Gore Vidal
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RE: How many strong assumptions do unbelievers need?
April 1, 2015 at 7:49 am
You should be just as worried about gods as do your cats or dogs. My dog doesn't care the least about philosophical structures, because he's an animal, just..like..us..
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