Views on the Death Penalty? (a poll)

[25point81]

Oh you're full of it. Quite a feat, happily offering to pull the trigger and at the same time professing how reluctantly you accept the alleged majority view that one should err on the side of killing to many people. Haha.

I lived in an Arab country for a few years.  If you murdered out there, you were executed.  If you stole, your hand was chopped off.  Brutal?  Yes it was.  What kind of society did you get in return?  One where one could go out at any time day or night and feel completely safe.  I rarely locked my flat or my car.  The chances of losing my keys exceeded the chances of being robbed.  I didn't have an issue with my daughters or my wife being out late at night.  They, in all probability, would be safe.

In this country, I once had my car broken into so often, the local garage ran out of locks.  Most people lock their doors because they have to.  I don't even go out after dark, let alone my wife and daughters.  This is the kind of 'life' we have created because we have gone soft on criminals.

OK, I could leave this country, but is that the answer?

[Longhorn]

So, in order to stop people killing people, you want to kill people.




Gotcha.

[25point81]

I'm for it.

Shit, for some people, I'll offer to do the job myself.

Talk is cheap. 

It's one thing to fantasize about violent deaths of people you hate (although that's probably not healthy either, come to think of it) - it's another to personally put to death a defenseless human being - however guilty they may be. Very few people can do the latter without serious psychological repercussions. Those that can are mostly psychopaths and they get off on it.

I'm against death penalty on principle. Institutionalized murder is something, I believe, civilized societies can do without.

I don't get off on this.  When I was young, this country was a very different place.  People didn't lock their doors.  We all looked after one another.  We all cared.  When you committed a crime, the law got ya and you did hard time.  That way, you thought twice about committing a crime.  We still had the death penalty then.

Then society went all PC.  We got rid of the death penalty.  Crime went through the roof and penalties appeared to do the reverse.

What do we have now?

Can't go out at night.

How is this a forward step?

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So, in order to stop people killing people, you want to kill people.




Gotcha.

In order to stop people killing, the deterrent has to be there.

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Guys

It's fine you wanna beat up on me for my views. I expressed my views. Fine. No issue.

What about your murderer who you locked up and didn't execute who then escaped and murdered some poor innocent. What about his right to life?

You all seem to have ignored that issue.

How bloody convenient.

[abaris]

I'm for it.

Shit, for some people, I'll offer to do the job myself.

So go, offer instead of just running your mouth. I hear the Saudis are recruiting.

[25point81]

I'm for it.

Shit, for some people, I'll offer to do the job myself.

So go, offer instead of just running your mouth. I hear the Saudis are recruiting.

And yet another one.

So your murderer that you put in jail escapes and murders a father of 3.

Now what?

[Longhorn]

In order to stop people killing, the deterrent has to be there.

Harsher punishment does not deter criminals.

Present evidence for the effectiveness of capital punishment.

Guys

It's fine you wanna beat up on me for my views. I expressed my views. Fine. No issue.

What about your murderer who you locked up and didn't execute who then escaped and murdered some poor innocent. What about his right to life?

You all seem to have ignored that issue.

How bloody convenient.

Your views that killing people is ok?

You, on the other hand, have ignored all alternatives to capital punishment.

How bloody indeed.

[Longhorn]

So go, offer instead of just running your mouth. I hear the Saudis are recruiting.

And yet another one.

So your murderer that you put in jail escapes and murders a father of 3.

Now what?

How about improving the prison system instead of killing people?

[25point81]

How about improving society such that it's members don't kill?

If people don't kill, no executions.

You think that's practical?

Society doesn't want to spend money on criminals. It doesn't see the point. It bitches and moans when it sees the 'home comforts' that they get already.

Some prisons have been outsourced to private companies in order to cut costs. Spending more money on improving the prison system isn't gonna happen, imho.

This country is bankrupt. We are borrowing money in order to continue to afford what we have. We can't afford to borrow much more. My belief is that there's even more cuts to come. Spending on prisons may be needed but will it happen?

[Longhorn]

Death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment.

I asked for evidence that capital punishment works. Have you got it?

[Anomalocaris]

With a typical criminal, I think the only good reason for death penalty is the assessment of high probability that if not executed, the person will find a way to kill again.

If we live in a fragmented society ruled by warlords and terrorists, in which tides of power ebb and flow, and no consistent central authority can be counted on to sustain its influence, then if I catch a particularly murderous bastard, I'll kill him because I have no assurance he won't get away from me to kill again.

Since I have trouble conceiving of how such an assessment of high probability of repeat offense can be made given the incarceration options available in a civil and reasonably stable society, I have to say in a civil and reasonably stable society, there is not any good reason for the death penalty in ordinary criminal cases. I believe even Norway has options to keep breivek confined beyond his sentence if assessment is made that he remains murderous.

Breivek, whatever his self absorption and self importance, is not a person of enormous influence and symbolism. A monsterously criminal petty criminal, but still a petty criminal. He is not a symbol to motive nations to go to war.

With Hitler or other decisive national leaders or extreme political it is clearly a different case. Political leaders are symbols, and nations can go to war over such symbols. Here the calculus of what needs to be done to symbols that can motivate nations requires a whole different calculus than whether the particular person would likely be able to reoffend.