Ask one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Won2blv]

The idea of a resurrection -at all- Nica......is hellenistic influence.  The idea of a heaven where people go after their lives -at all- is hellenistic influence...I'm -not- saying that the idea of an afterlife and your bodily resurrection are the same ideas.....wtf are you talking about?  I'll have pages to say before we -ever- get to the council of Nicaea.....Those are just the first two -demonstrations- of syncretism (please, look this up too while you're at it..since it's the term for what we're discussing) that, due to their early influence..have seeped into -every- christian sect.  The hellinizing influence on judaism was crucial in changing those parts of judaism which needed to be changed in order to yield the christianity we see today, yours included.  If judaism (and later christianity) -hadn't- incorporated pagan thoughts on the matter, you wouldn't have this belief in resurrection, you wouldn't have this belief in an afterlife.  Your beliefs would not differ from jewish beliefs in this way (not that their beliefs are now..what they were then....we're talking about a sea change in judaism -a sea change in the entire western world- predating christianity, which forms the basis of concepts important to the current iterations of all three branches of the abrahamic faiths).  This was so well understood as an event that early christian writers, centuries later, like "Paul" warn us of it explicitly....whilst not realizing that a few verses later they are blissfully spouting hellenized christo-judaism themselves.  You should understand all of this, as you like to lambast catholics for their syncretism (The JW National Sport, if ever there were one).......had you looked beyond the materials the kingdom hall provided you with...you would have found that the catholics didn't -start- this trend.  It was (and is) ongoing.  You, as a christian, as a JW...have -inherited- syncretism.  So please, please, stop haranguing others denominations for what is equally true of your denomination.   You seem to think that catholic syncretism is obvious...but I'm not sure what that means, obvious in ways that the syncretism in your own sect isn't?  Obvious relative to sneakier examples of syncretism in some other faith system?  

The religious explanation for this is simple..mind you.  Progressive revelation.  But you asked me for facts..........so progressive revelation is out.  The facts are, yall have been cribbing from pagans.

Now, show me that you're even capable of having this conversation, and when you ask for facts....then get them.....handle it a little bit better, eh?

You either have the facts or you don't. Scriptural examples of bodily redirections existed long before hellenizing. And that has been the only example you have raised. I'm not going to play this game where you say that I have to understand this and that before we discuss anything further. Just tell me what jws believe that is syncretism or hellenizing. The one rule I have is that it has to be current teachings. Jws used to celebrate Christmas but that doesn't mean they're grandfathered into the custom

[The Grand Nudger]

Witness asks for the facts, then ignores the facts when presented.  I am jacks complete lack of surprise.

Are we done? It was my first example, an introductory example...a far reaching example which does include your own current, faith, but why would I continue..... after having seen your reaction? Yeah, you kind of do have to understand a subject that -you've asked about- to have a discussion about it. This is, apparently, insulting to you?

Pro-tip, don't ask questions you don't want answered, and don't bitch and moan like a child when you get what you asked for. You feeling any deju-vu......?

[Won2blv]

Witness asks for the facts, then ignores the facts when presented.  I am jacks complete lack of surprise.

Are we done?  It was my first example, an introductory example...a far reaching example which does include your own current, faith, but why would I continue..... after having seen your reaction?  Yeah, you kind of do have to understand a subject that -you've asked about- to have a discussion about it.  This is, apparently, insulting to you?

Pro-tip, don't ask questions you don't want answered, and don't bitch and moan like a child when you get what you asked for.  You feeling any deju-vu......?

Sounds like you don't have jack shit to me. I can demonstrate that bodily resurrections in the scriptures has a pre hellenization influence to them. I'm in the lions den so quit giving me this bullshit about only accepting what jws tell me.

[The Grand Nudger]

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[Won2blv]

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I guess that sums up your arguments

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, in a way it does.  I could have said "I'm very disappointed with you and how this conversation turned south before it ever got started"......but....

LOL, the "lions den"..I appreciate the compliment. No, Nica, I tried to have a conversation about a subject which interests me greatly with someone who was more interested in proving that his faith position was correct than discussing the origins of that position. It's a mistake I won't be repeating, in your case. I couldn't even make it passed introducing the concept and situation, before your door to door drive kicked in..........sigh.

[Won2blv]

Yeah, in a way it does.  I could have said "I'm very disappointed with you and how this conversation turned south before it ever got started"......but....

LOL, the "lions den"..I appreciate the compliment. No, Nica, I tried to have a conversation about a subject which interests me greatly with someone who was more interested in proving that his faith position was correct than discussing the origins of that position. It's a mistake I won't be repeating, in your case.  I couldn't even make it passed introducing the concept and situation, before your door to door drive kicked in..........sigh.

Usually someone makes a claim before they start breaking down the counter arguments. That's what a straw man is. Give me the claims or don't but the one you mentioned is weak at best

[The Grand Nudger]

You, Nica, have removed any desire of mine to discuss the subject further.  You know the names of the terms, now, that you would require in order to go investigate the issue yourself.  I'm not going to hold your hand, as I was willing to do previously, because your behavior doesn;t warrant it.  If you'd like, I'll talk your ear off about the weather here in my neck of the woods....but I'm no longer going to pursue this subject with you...and I;ve explained why enough, at this point, for you to do -whatever- it is you're going to do going forward.  

Please don't misunderstand me, you see me arguing a point with other theists on this site until they cry uncle or leave...but it's because I don't have a shred of respect for those people or their beliefs.  For whatever reason, you strike me as a different kind of person ( I told you I liked you..lol), so it's just not in me. I've said something that makes you very uncomfortable, when and if that discomfort dies down enough for us to have the sort of conversation two -mutual- enthusiasts might have, maybe we'll do that. It aint gonna be today, though.

So............how about that weather, amiright?

[Won2blv]

You, Nica, have removed any desire of mine to discuss the subject further.  You know the names of the terms, now, that you would require in order to go investigate the issue yourself.  I'm not going to hold your hand, as I was willing to do previously, because your behavior doesn;t warrant it.  If you'd like, I'll talk your ear off about the weather here in my neck of the woods....but I'm no longer going to pursue this subject with you...and I;ve explained why enough, at this point, for you to do -whatever- it is you're going to do going forward.  

Please don't misunderstand me, you see me arguing a point with other theists on this site until they cry uncle or leave...but it's because I don't have a shred of respect for those people or their beliefs.  For whatever reason, you strike me as a different kind of person ( I told you I liked you..lol), so it's just not in me.  I've said something that makes you very uncomfortable, when and if that discomfort dies down enough for us to have the sort of conversation two -mutual- enthusiasts might have, maybe we'll do that.  It aint gonna be today, though.

So............how about that weather, amiright?

I'm sorry if I disappointed you. Does this mean our fishing trip is cancelled?

[The Grand Nudger]

Hell no!  You a freshwater or saltwater man? I used to fish for trout /w a buddy of mine, JW like yourself......some of my best memories....so it won't get in the way..lol. He knew the spots. I was more of a shark guy at the time, though I don't think we ever threw a baited anchor out for blacktip.....wish we had, haven't seen him in years.