The Trinity Explained

[Anomalocaris]

Yahweh can simply choose to forgive. The blood sacrifice doesn't help anything. It was just senseless torture and bloodshed.

It was not senseless. It was very purposeful. A few derranged and gullible followers of an deeply psychologically troubled jewish preacher had to explain away why both the secular and religious authority held such a low opinion of their guru, and make lemonade out of the fact that the authorities executed him in the manner reserved for slaves who have killed their masters. This "sacrafice" is what these follower came up with.

[Godscreated]

Thanks fr0do,Watson and tackattack I sure was filling lonely in here KUDOS to all three.

Now atheist or any nonbelivers why would God sacrifice Himself to Himself like fr0do said that is not logical. Your reasoning is not sound Bibically and this is the only thing we have to use about sacrifice so if you want to argue about sacrifice according to God then you need to go to the Bible. Let's say I give up a weekend to help a widow or anyone else who is in need I've then sacrificed my planned weekend for someone else who had a need, this in no way compares to what Christ did for us, I did not sacrifice my time to anyone nor to God only for one who was in need and to glorify God. The sacrifice I made was not to gain anything for if I had then where is the sacrifice. Now Christ gave His life for mankind and it was not for gain, if His sacrifice was to God then Christ would have gained by receiving His life back, the sacrifice Christ made was to glorify the Father not to appease Him. The reason Christ was raised from the dead was to give us the hope (knowledge) of eternal life, no one else could do this but Christ, He is the one who died for our sins, so in accepting His sacrifice we could know that we would have eternal life. If Christ had sacrificed Himself to God and not been raised from the dead then what kind of message would God have been sending mankind. How could we have ever thought God would restore our lives if He would not raise His Son from the grave.

[DeistPaladin]

Now atheist or any nonbelivers why would God sacrifice Himself to Himself like fr0do said that is not logical.

I agree. That's kind of the whole point.

[Anomalocaris]

Thanks fr0do,Watson and tackattack I sure was filling lonely in here KUDOS to all three.

Now atheist or any nonbelivers why would God sacrifice Himself to Himself like fr0do said that is not logical. Your reasoning is not sound Bibically and this is the only thing we have to use about sacrifice so if you want to argue about sacrifice according to God then you need to go to the Bible. Let's say I give up a weekend to help a widow or anyone else who is in need I've then sacrificed my planned weekend for someone else who had a need, this in no way compares to what Christ did for us, I did not sacrifice my time to anyone nor to God only for one who was in need and to glorify God. The sacrifice I made was not to gain anything for if I had then where is the sacrifice. Now Christ gave His life for mankind and it was not for gain, if His sacrifice was to God then Christ would have gained by receiving His life back, the sacrifice Christ made was to glorify the Father not to appease Him. The reason Christ was raised from the dead was to give us the hope (knowledge) of eternal life, no one else could do this but Christ, He is the one who died for our sins, so in accepting His sacrifice we could know that we would have eternal life. If Christ had sacrificed Himself to God and not been raised from the dead then what kind of message would God have been sending mankind. How could we have ever thought God would restore our lives if He would not raise His Son from the grave.

So is Jesus "consubstantial" with god or not?? But that's a nettlesome point which need not get in the way of a good Christian apology.

So the story seems to be the sacrifice was a charade because the supposed victim was always going to get everything back, whether because he is god, or because he has god in a reputation bind. But the sacrifice was nontheless meant to be taken at face value eventhough the reader is also told through a major bullet point that victim was getting everything back and thus stood to sacrifice nothing through his sacrifice. Nevertheless the whole thing was still well intended by none less that the omniscient repository of infinite goodness itself to convey a message of utmost importance. But omnipotence nevertheless could not conjure method of transmission faster and mote effective then by spreading the convoluted and somewhat critically suspect story through word of mouth and manuscripts that most people can't read. Despite notable effort on the part of the faithfully informed to speed the all important word by wars of conquest in which millions were killed before they can actually receive the information, countless millions others over two thousand years were nonetheless completely overlooked by the all knowing, not to mention remained beyond the conversion effort and lance points of faithful, and left without a hope of being informed.

Through all this god smiled with munificience.

[Minimalist]

Yahweh is the positive force.

1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember [that] which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid [wait] for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Yeah - he's a real fucking prince, Frods. A heavenly role model for mass murderers.

[fr0d0]

You aren't implying that us atheists are an evil force against god are you fr0ds?

I don't think he exists, plain and simple, call it a negative position if you like, but it's got nothing to do with a 'negative force'.

Not at all VOID. We all have the potential to act negatively. I might state my aim as positivity, but who knows who is more so? I don't posses superpowers enough to know.

---

I see the very last grain of rational inquery falling down the spinal column out the bottom.

You don't see how you can make a rational point tho'.

[tavarish]

Now atheist or any nonbelivers why would God sacrifice Himself to Himself like fr0do said that is not logical.

Now you're getting it.

Let's say I give up a weekend to help a widow or anyone else who is in need I've then sacrificed my planned weekend for someone else who had a need, this in no way compares to what Christ did for us, I did not sacrifice my time to anyone nor to God only for one who was in need and to glorify God.

You didn't sacrifice your time to God, you just sacrificed time to directly benefit that God. Can you see how this makes no sense?

This is the equivalent of saying:
"I didn't give money to Mary, I only transferred money to her bank account."

The sacrifice I made was not to gain anything for if I had then where is the sacrifice.

If you didn't have anything to gain, you wouldn't have done it. Altriusm works because it rewards both parties. One gets a service or tangible goods, and the other gets a sense of satisfaction, at the very least.

Have you ever seen anyone giving to the homeless that genuinely hated it, but were there on their own accord, without any reward at all?

Now Christ gave His life for mankind and it was not for gain, if His sacrifice was to God then Christ would have gained by receiving His life back,

I'm sorry, but according to the Bible, didn't he come back to life, then ascend to Heaven, to live eternally?

the sacrifice Christ made was to glorify the Father not to appease Him. The reason Christ was raised from the dead was to give us the hope (knowledge) of eternal life, no one else could do this but Christ, He is the one who died for our sins, so in accepting His sacrifice we could know that we would have eternal life.

You just said that if his sacrifice was to God, then Christ would have gotten his life back, which he did. You're pretty much refuting your own assertions.

If Christ had sacrificed Himself to God and not been raised from the dead then what kind of message would God have been sending mankind.

"I don't exist."

How could we have ever thought God would restore our lives if He would not raise His Son from the grave.

Judaism and Islam have worked pretty well without that little part of the story.

[Anomalocaris]

Judaism and Islam have worked pretty well without that little part of the story.

The former survives by ruthless pandering to a particular ethnic group at the expense of all others. The latter is a fairer comparison in attempting universal appeal, and have indeed worked out not appreciably worse. Furthermore most charges that has been leveled at the behavior of Muslims today can be leveled with much greater vehemence at Christians when Christianity was the same age as Islam is today. So by no means is it clear which is indeed the intrinsically less problematic religion as far as impact on welfare of mankind goes.

[downbeatplumb]

The 'blood sacrifice' was the method in which Jesus taught God's message of love and selflessness to humanity. Those who understood the lesson learned from it, those who did not understand did not learn.

and yet there is no one jot of actual evidence that this epoch transforming major act happened at all.

Odds are it didnt happen.

But thats a good thing.

Watch this video from 4.27 on to see why.(the whole things good but that is the section I mean)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbhFXpI8DHA

[Minimalist]

Oh, the faith-gang hates it when you mention the evidence requirement.