Why can't Christians say that parts of the Old Testament don't apply??..

[DeistPaladin]

They are all dead, can we jettison the whole thing [the OT] now?

Indeed. If these laws were only "for all time" for the people who lived at that time, why keep these books in sacred scripture where they might be misinterpreted by future generations as applying to them?

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It shouldn't be called Christianity, it should be called Roll Your Own Morality.

Sounds like one of those many useless tables from the 1st edition DMG.

[Thor]

I love it when I point out absurd laws in the Bible and Christians want to tell me that I am talking about "Mosaic Law" and that doesn't apply any more.

I then challenge them to show me where in the book it says that these laws "don't apply any more".

I also ask, "Well, if these laws don't apply any more, then why are they still in the book?" (After all, when we repeal laws they are removed from the law books!)

I have yet to receive a reasonable answer to either question.

[Minimalist]

It's right there in Genesis just because you think it's -------- doesn't make it so even though you think so, sorry to disappoint you Min.

"Genesis" contains world-covering floods, talking snakes, magic trees, and your fucking god. I think "bullshit" is the correct word.

Really....what kind of fool does it take to think that such nonsense is real? It's no different than any other ancient mythology 99% of which you will insist is crazy.

Take off your blinders, man.

[dave4shmups]

The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit were from the begining ie. Genesis. As for stoneing someone for working on the Sabbath that is against the laws of our country that was founded on religious freedom. All the OT law does not apply to christianity. Jesus said, it was said to hate your enemies, I say to love your enemies and even supply their needs. When the priest condemned the disciples for picking grain to eat on the Sabbath Jesus said do you not pull an ox from the ditch on the Sabbath, then He told them He was the Lord of the Sabbath and that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Jesus was saying to the priest that I have not judged them so why should you. Many different laws in the OT were meant for different reasons and some of those do not apply to todays world.

First of all, the rest of you should not rip on this guy, because that's essentially (without the harsh language) the way I was treated, more times then not, when I was a Christian.

@Godschild-why were those regulations there to begin with? I mean, seriously, why did people have to be stoned to death just for violating the Sabbath. I don't expect you do have all the answers, I don't.

[Anomalocaris]

We don't rip him. We rip what he believes. For too long the sort of things he believe has insinuated itself so deeply into the general discourse that it was reflexively given a pass and becomes bad manners to challenge, eventhough it was monsterously destructive. There is a lot of missing ripping which needs to be caught up on.

[Minimalist]

Absolutely. The time to tolerate mythic ( and epic ) foolishness is past.

[solja247]

I also ask, "Well, if these laws don't apply any more, then why are they still in the book?" (After all, when we repeal laws they are removed from the law books!)

They are in the Bible because they are part of the Torah and as Col 2:16 says are a typology of the first coming of Jesus.
I am seeing the Mosaic law more for this reason:

The verses which bracket chapters 11-20 (see note 6) use the key verb "to divide, distinguish, or separate" (V*iI3ü) in 10:10,11:47, and four times in 20:24-26: the priests are called to teach Israel to "make distinctions," because God has "distinguished" Israel from the nations. This key verb echoes Genesis 1, where God's own creative work partly consists of acts of separation or distinguishing (Gen 1:4,6-7, [9], 14,18), and where all the varied forms of life reproduce "according to their kinds." Purity calls human beings to imitate God, who draws lines of separation so that life can flourish. For this theme, Lev 19:19 serves as a hallmark: Israel is forbidden to cross-breed animals, to sow a field with two kinds of seed, or to wear clothing of mixed fabrics. In line with this theme, Lev 18:23 brands bestial sex as b'Dfy, (NRSV "perversion"), which properly means "mixture." In this thinking, God has established order to carve out a place for created life to thrive; when creatures violate that order, the chaos of Gen 1:2 is invited back in, just as the great flood came gushing in after such major boundary-crossings as in Gen 6:1-4.

@Godschild-why were those regulations there to begin with? I mean, seriously, why did people have to be stoned to death just for violating the Sabbath. I don't expect you do have all the answers, I don't.

To set them apart...

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Absolutely. The time to tolerate mythic ( and epic ) foolishness is past.

Thiests and Atheists who rip each other off are like two blind men who rip each other off for being blind, yet, they themselves are still blind...

[DeistPaladin]

I also ask, "Well, if these laws don't apply any more, then why are they still in the book?" (After all, when we repeal laws they are removed from the law books!)

I have yet to receive a reasonable answer to either question.

Here you go:

The Romans required an appeal to antiquity in order to accept any religion.

The attitude was that any "new" religion had to explain where the hell God has been all these centuries. If the one-true-religion really was so true, why hadn't anyone heard of it until now? Was the same jealous, attention hungry god who desires, nay demands, a personal relationship with his creation just on vacation for the last few thousand years? Is it the case that all the religions of antiquity somehow got it all wrong during that time, were never corrected, and suddenly, out of the blue, the one-true-god decides to fix the problem by speaking to the one-true-prophet, nobody else, and have him set the older religions straight?

I'm talking to you, Islam!

Same goes for you, Mormonism!

Normally, the appeal to antiquity is a logical fallacy but in this case, the Romans had good reason to demand such a bone fide to any religion claiming to exclusively know the mind of Christianity's personal god.

I don't know if I mentioned this earlier in this thread by Marcionite Christianity was a very popular contender by the time of the Council of Nicaea in 325. It seemed like it was within an ace of becoming the victor. Had they won, today people would be asking our political candidates if they believe in two gods. The Marcionites rejected all things Jewish and considered Yahweh and the OT to be inferior to the authority of the higher god Jesus. To them, Jesus didn't "fulfill" the OT laws (whatever that's supposed to mean), he flat out abolished them.

Marcionite seems relatively more consistent and rational than the Trinitarian mess that Christianity today presents but it had the Achilles heal of being a "new" religion, founded by none other than the apostle Paul as discovered by Marcion. Paul's original "start over from scratch" model wasn't going to cut it with the Romans. They needed the OT ties to antiquity. Christianity couldn't throw it out and survive.

The net result from Nicaea, and consequently for modern Christianity, was a strange compromise. They kept the OT but then ignored it all as "fulfilled" by Jesus. Jesus was a god who could forgive sins but also part of and somehow subordinate to the Triune god. Christianity was strictly monotheistic, per the old Jewish directives as codified in the Ten Commandments, and yet also had an intercessor deity, Jesus, who was required in order to reach the Heavenly Father, per the pagan and gnostic influences so popular with the Romans.

Like a child of Judaism and Paganism, the contemporary version of Christianity was born into the world with traits of both. Like most bastard children, the conception was half improvised and half compromised. And so we're saddled with the screaming, dysfunctional, maladjusted brat today.

Oh, sorry, you were looking for a rational theological answer, weren't you? What a contradiction in terms.

[Minimalist]

Thiests and Atheists who rip each other off are like two blind men who rip each other off for being blind, yet, they themselves are still blind...

Thank you for another useless platitude.

[Godscreated]

The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit were from the begining ie. Genesis. As for stoneing someone for working on the Sabbath that is against the laws of our country that was founded on religious freedom. All the OT law does not apply to christianity. Jesus said, it was said to hate your enemies, I say to love your enemies and even supply their needs. When the priest condemned the disciples for picking grain to eat on the Sabbath Jesus said do you not pull an ox from the ditch on the Sabbath, then He told them He was the Lord of the Sabbath and that the Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath. Jesus was saying to the priest that I have not judged them so why should you. Many different laws in the OT were meant for different reasons and some of those do not apply to todays world.

First of all, the rest of you should not rip on this guy, because that's essentially (without the harsh language) the way I was treated, more times then not, when I was a Christian.

@Godschild-why were those regulations there to begin with? I mean, seriously, why did people have to be stoned to death just for violating the Sabbath. I don't expect you do have all the answers, I don't.

Thank you for your concern it's good to know some care. As for these guys they can not move me away from what I know, I'm sorry that they do not understand. The more they rip my beliefs the more they forge a stronger christian, God does use those who refuse to believe to help His people. If any of you doubt this statement you should check me out by reading what the scriptures of the NT say about this matter. Not every one was stoned to death for violating the Sabbath law when the city of Jericho was destroyed the Israelites marched for seven straight days, this means one of those days would be a Sabbath day. Now if the Sabbath law was upheld there would be no nation of Israel.

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I love it when I point out absurd laws in the Bible and Christians want to tell me that I am talking about "Mosaic Law" and that doesn't apply any more.

I then challenge them to show me where in the book it says that these laws "don't apply any more".

I also ask, "Well, if these laws don't apply any more, then why are they still in the book?" (After all, when we repeal laws they are removed from the law books!)

I have yet to receive a reasonable answer to either question.

The Bible is for instruction, you do not erase things just because they are no longer used. I have a question for you Thor, if the laws are removed from the law books then how is it we know of them?

Thor ask a question about OT law and let,s see if we can find an answer. The answer we find may not be to your liking, that does not make it any less true.

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The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit were from the begining ie. Genesis.

I hate to ask as i've had this discussion before, but please regurgitate the appropriate passages with your interpretation of it.

All the OT law does not apply to christianity.

That my dear friend is called cherry picking. Choose which laws apply and make up your own religion. It shouldn't be called Christianity, it should be called Roll Your Own Morality.

It,s not cherry picking some of the OT laws do not apply to christianity as a matter of fact they were given to show the need of Christ as savior. Adam and Eve could not keep the only law given them and no one has ever keep all the 10 commandments, we're a pretty sorry lot.

John 1:1-5 These verses tell us that Christ was with the Father in the begining and that all things were made through Him. (Jesus was there at the start of creation)

Genesis 1:1-3 These verses tell us that the Father and Holy Spirit were present at the begining. Those eight verses show the Trinity has always been.

Genesis 3:22 God says,"Behold the man has become like us knowing good and evil. Here God the Father refers to the Son and Holy Spirit.