The Tower of Babel

[Huggy Bear]

Then nor should being a "sinner". You can't have it both ways.

Like I said, breaking the Law makes you a criminal, you get nothing special for obeying the law. That's just how it is.

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Are you down to arguing semantics? Is a rapist a good person, yes or no? Is a murderer a good person, yes or no? Is a thief a good person, yes or no?

Look at you, trying to control the responses to your vapid questions.  Are you that worried that it will all crumble if people don't stay within the lines you've prepared?  You should be.  I don't know whether or not any of them are good people, I only know that they have all, ostensibly, committed crimes.  I hear Robin Hood was pretty decent, but he's a theif...so....?

So you can't admit that a rapist, murderer, or thief are bad people? hmmm, very telling, why do you believe God is bad again? If Robin robbed the poor and gave to the rich, would he still be a decent fellow? So why is he considered a decent person because he robs rich people and gives to poor?

Really? What about the guy that got a life sentence for stealing a donut? Does that punishment fit the crime?

Link me the case, I have to see this one, lol.  I'd hate to think you're full of shit...............

Allergic to google?

Reason and compassion have nothing to do with the law, which is why it's depicted as wearing a blindfold, it's impartial.

If you think that law has nothing to do with reason, okay.  If you think law has nothing to do with compassion, okay.  I don't see the need to argue the points with you.

Ok, show me where the Law is discretionary...

how many tames have you heard a Judge say that their hands were tied because the law demanded a certain sentence?

The same goes for the law of God, there is no compassion, only justice. If the penalty for sin is death, then his hands are tied, if you commit sin, you die, period.

But through the grace of Jesus Christ you are exempted from the penalty of death.

Sounds like a charade to me.  Glad we have a better legal system.  Seriously though, why are we still discussing this, shouldn't you be packing?

*emphasis mine*
Who's we?

[Cyberman]

Like I said, breaking the Law makes you a criminal, you get nothing special for obeying the law.

Yes you do, you get to be a law-abiding citizen.

[Huggy Bear]

Like I said, breaking the Law makes you a criminal, you get nothing special for obeying the law.

Yes you do, you get to be a law-abiding citizen.

If the overwhelming majority of the population are law abiding citizens, how then is being a law abiding citizen special?

More importantly, how does the government recognize your law abiding citizen status?

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, for starters, they don't incarcerate you - so that's a bonus. Did you not realize that prosecutors have vast - vast- discretionary power? Go check the second amendment thread for an example. I don't always agree with how they use it, but it exists. Your boy didn't get life for a donut, the case was dropped, jackass (but I'd betya 5 bucks he's in jail for something else right now, if he isn't dead, it's sort of a career for him). He has 50 convictions, and would have been in prison for life earlier, if prosecutors hadn't used their discretion...that you don't think the law contains.

You're a fucking moron, Huggy, and just as I thought...full of shit. So, what's the next bold faced lie you'd like to put your name to, and double down on? Tell me a real good one, I'm in for a long night.

[Huggy Bear]

Well, for starters, they don't incarcerate you - so that's a bonus.  Did you not realize that prosecutors have vast - vast- discretionary power?  Go check the second amendment thread for an example.  I don't always agree with how they use it, but it exists.

That's not the point I was making... You stated

because we, as reasonable and compassionate beings...have determined that the punishment must fit the crime.

My point was that reason and compassion have nothing to do with law. The law does not allow for one to steal food if they are hungry, for instance.

Therefore the law isn't discretionary... it doesn't make exceptions on which laws that can be broken for the sake of compassion.

 Your boy didn't get life for a donut, the case was dropped, jackass (but I'd betya 5 bucks he's in jail for something else right now, if he isn't dead, it's sort of a career for him).  He has 50 convictions, and would have been in prison for life earlier, if prosecutors hadn't used their discretion...that you don't think the law contains.

Again you miss the point, the fact that he was facing life shows that the punishment didn't fit the crime.. that's hardly the only case, but since you are incapable of doing any research whatsoever here are a few more for you.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new...s-20130327

Thanks to a brand-new, get-tough-on-crime state law, Wilkerson would soon be sentenced to life in prison for stealing a pair of plain white tube socks worth $2.50.

"No, sir, I was not expecting that one," he says now, laughing darkly. Because Wilkerson had two prior convictions, both dating back to 1981, the shoplifting charge counted as a third strike against him. He was sentenced to 25 years to life, meaning that his first chance for a parole hearing would be in 25 years.

And given that around 80 percent of parole applications are rejected by parole boards, and governors override parole boards in about 50 percent of the instances where parole is granted, it was a near certainty that Wilkerson would never see the outside of a prison again.

The state also fined him $2,500 – restitution for the stolen socks. He works that off by putting in four to five hours a day in the prison cafeteria, for which he gets paid $20 a month, of which the state takes $11. At this rate, he will be in his nineties before he's paid the state off for that one pair of socks.

Have you heard the one about the guy who got life for stealing a slice of pizza? Or the guy who went away forever for lifting a pair of baby shoes? Or the one who got 50 to life for helping himself to five children's videotapes from Kmart? How about the guy who got life for possessing 0.14 grams of meth? That last offender was a criminal mastermind by Three Strikes standards, as many others have been sentenced to life for holding even smaller amounts of drugs, including one poor sap who got the max for 0.09 grams of black-tar heroin.

Over 3,000 US prisoners serving life without parole for non-violent crimes

At about 12.40pm on 2 January 1996, Timothy Jackson took a jacket from the Maison Blanche department store in New Orleans, draped it over his arm, and walked out of the store without paying for it. When he was accosted by a security guard, Jackson said: “I just needed another jacket, man.”

A few months later Jackson was convicted of shoplifting and sent to Angola prison in Louisiana. That was 16 years ago. Today he is still incarcerated in Angola, and will stay there for the rest of his natural life having been condemned to die in jail. All for the theft of a jacket, worth $159.

So these punishments fit the crime?

You're a fucking moron, Huggy, and just as I thought...full of shit.  So, what's the next bold faced lie you'd like to put your name to, and double down on?  Tell me a real good one, I'm in for a long night.

You really have a short memory don't you? The word "moron" should no longer be in your vocabulary after this little episode....

I'm not going to go through line by line and tell you why each and every example is ignorance when any example will explain why -any other- is ignorance.

Wait...wait..you think that the only way a pattern can emerge is if the bees are ticking out numbers in their heads...doing reproductive math?  You don't think that it has anything to do with the manner in which bees produce, and the way we might be able to express that mathematically?

Bees, btw...all have 2 parents.  They reproduce sexually.........

Wrong, males come from a unfertilized egg, meaning they have no father....

Just know, every time you feel the need to call someone a "moron", i'm bringing that up.

[The Grand Nudger]

Your boy wasn't facing life for stealing a donut, he was facing life for having dozens of convictions, any 3 of which could have sent him to prison indefinitely, but prosecutors repeatedly exercised their discretion, and this case, itself, was dropped.  Yes, a life in prison is a fitting sentence for a life of crime. He doesn't seem to have spent much time -outside- of prison in any case, the constant coming and going was pointless. Stop, you're embarrassing yourself. Moron.

[Huggy Bear]

Your boy wasn't facing life for stealing a donut, he was facing life for having dozens of convictions, any 3 of which could have sent him to prison indefinitely, but prosecutors repeatedly exercised their discretion, and this case, itself, was dropped.  Stop, you're embarrassing yourself.  Moron.

You stated that

because we, as reasonable and compassionate beings...have determined that the punishment must fit the crime.  

That is a false statement, as I have posted a link to an article stating that over 3000 people are serving life for non violent crimes...

care to address that?

Whether or not the above case was dropped is irrelevant, It is a FACT that people are serving life sentences for non violent crimes.

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I'm not going to go through line by line and tell you why each and every example is ignorance when any example will explain why -any other- is ignorance.

Wait...wait..you think that the only way a pattern can emerge is if the bees are ticking out numbers in their heads...doing reproductive math?  You don't think that it has anything to do with the manner in which bees produce, and the way we might be able to express that mathematically?

Bees, btw...all have 2 parents.  They reproduce sexually.........

Wrong, males come from a unfertilized egg, meaning they have no father....

[The Grand Nudger]

Drop it, you're done, you were caught in a bold faced lie.  Moron.

What are you hoping to achieve by continuing? Do you wish to state that god's system is at least no worse than a system you believe to be utter garbage? Really? That's an awfully low bar for god, even for a believer.

[Minimalist]

My point was that reason and compassion have nothing to do with law. The law does not allow for one to steal food if they are hungry, for instance.

Therefore the law isn't discretionary... it doesn't make exceptions on which laws that can be broken for the sake of compassion.

Damn you, Rythym..... you've put me in the position of having to agree with Huggy...and I fucking hate that.

The laws in the country serve the power structure.  They are enforced in such a way as to brutalize minority populations.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...ks-widens/

Incarceration gap widens between whites and blacks

[Huggy Bear]

Drop it, you're done, you were caught in a bold faced lie.  Moron.  

What are you hoping to achieve by continuing?  Do you wish to state that god's system is at least no worse than a system you believe to be utter garbage?  Really?

Oh, so you have no response to anything I said? gotcha.

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I'm not going to go through line by line and tell you why each and every example is ignorance when any example will explain why -any other- is ignorance.

Wait...wait..you think that the only way a pattern can emerge is if the bees are ticking out numbers in their heads...doing reproductive math?  You don't think that it has anything to do with the manner in which bees produce, and the way we might be able to express that mathematically?

Bees, btw...all have 2 parents.  They reproduce sexually.........

Wrong, males come from a unfertilized egg, meaning they have no father....