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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 5:29 pm
(August 14, 2017 at 5:00 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: (August 14, 2017 at 4:59 pm)Brian37 Wrote: You still have not answered my question.
Is it your position that the God of the Bible is the cause of why non life went to life?
Yes.
NO FUCKING SHIT, and I agree you do think the God of the bible explains non life going to life.
SO FUCKING CUT THE BULLSHIT that you don't have an end goal because you do have a goal.
You, "The God of the bible did it"
Me, "Prove it"
You, "I am not arguing the God of the bible"
Make up your fucking mind.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 5:52 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2017 at 5:54 pm by rjh4 is back.)
(August 14, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Wonderful, so from that point of understanding and agreement, I have a question that you might be qualified to opine upon.
If there were a god that were capable of baking a cake called life out of organic chemistry, what is the basis of the religious objection to that same cake being baked by any other possible means?
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "religious objection". Consequently, I am not sure how to respond.
(August 14, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: (August 14, 2017 at 5:00 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: Yes.
NO FUCKING SHIT, and I agree you do think the God of the bible explains non life going to life.
SO FUCKING CUT THE BULLSHIT that you don't have an end goal because you do have a goal.
You, "The God of the bible did it"
Me, "Prove it"
You, "I am not arguing the God of the bible"
Make up your fucking mind.
You are such an ass Brian. I did not come here to make that argument, as much as you want me to have had that intention. You ask me questions, I answer them, and then you put it on me that that was my intention. It wasn't.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 6:03 pm
(August 14, 2017 at 5:52 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: (August 14, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Wonderful, so from that point of understanding and agreement, I have a question that you might be qualified to opine upon.
If there were a god that were capable of baking a cake called life out of organic chemistry, what is the basis of the religious objection to that same cake being baked by any other possible means?
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "religious objection". Consequently, I am not sure how to respond.
(August 14, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Brian37 Wrote: NO FUCKING SHIT, and I agree you do think the God of the bible explains non life going to life.
SO FUCKING CUT THE BULLSHIT that you don't have an end goal because you do have a goal.
You, "The God of the bible did it"
Me, "Prove it"
You, "I am not arguing the God of the bible"
Make up your fucking mind.
You are such an ass Brian. I did not come here to make that argument, as much as you want me to have had that intention. You ask me questions, I answer them, and then you put it on me that that was my intention. It wasn't.
No you don't like my word choice. But you did come here to make an argument, you are simply unwilling to admit it.
You, "The God of the Bible explains how non life when to life"
You have been this entire thread denying that is what you are trying to argue and now admit that is what you are arguing.
Yes, I am an ass, because I don't like bullshit dodges. If you hold a position don't cower from it, don't hide from it.
You did and now you don't want to admit your position is that your God did it even though you just now admit you claim your god did it.
My polite response is, "MAKE UP YOUR MIND".
My bullshit detector knew you didn't want to own up to the position you hold.
You have a problem with saying "My God did it" WHICH YOU CLEARLY ADMIT TO'
And my rightful response of "Prove it!"
You are not angry at my word choice, you are merely pissed that you cannot square your desire with your lack of evidence. The term for that is cognitive dissonance.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 6:05 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2017 at 6:11 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 14, 2017 at 5:52 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: (August 14, 2017 at 5:29 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Wonderful, so from that point of understanding and agreement, I have a question that you might be qualified to opine upon.
If there were a god that were capable of baking a cake called life out of organic chemistry, what is the basis of the religious objection to that same cake being baked by any other possible means?
I am not sure I understand what you mean by "religious objection". Consequently, I am not sure how to respond.
As in, the objections of people who religiously believe in a creator god -
Your earlier and repeated objections would be an example of those religious objections. I assumed you might have some insight. That you might know why you objected.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 6:28 pm
(August 14, 2017 at 6:05 pm)Khemikal Wrote: (August 14, 2017 at 5:52 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: I am not sure I understand what you mean by "religious objection". Consequently, I am not sure how to respond.
As in, the objections of people who religiously believe in a creator god - to the notion of life having been the product of a series of chemical reactions.
I would say there is still a valid objection.
The fact is, I was clearly not as precise as I should have been in formulating my position as frankly I never thought about life from non-life in the way you presented it. I worded by objection broadly enough such that it covers things we observe and you pointed that out.
However, there still seems to be a big difference between the life from non-life that we observe and what would have had to happen when no life existed. The kind we observe requires life to get more life. It is the living cells that take non-living matter and produce more life.
So I still think there are issues with the idea of life coming from non-life via a series of chemical reaction without some other life participating in the process.
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 6:43 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2017 at 6:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(August 14, 2017 at 6:28 pm)rjh4 is back Wrote: I would say there is still a valid objection.
The fact is, I was clearly not as precise as I should have been in formulating my position as frankly I never thought about life from non-life in the way you presented it. I worded by objection broadly enough such that it covers things we observe and you pointed that out.
However, there still seems to be a big difference between the life from non-life that we observe and what would have had to happen when no life existed. The kind we observe requires life to get more life. It is the living cells that take non-living matter and produce more life.
So I still think there are issues with the idea of life coming from non-life via a series of chemical reaction without some other life participating in the process. Then you do worship an alien life form, or? I'm just not sure I understand, here. Unless there's some conjecture that god is a living thing then neither of us sees any requirement for a living thing to be involved in a chemical reaction.
Frankly, there -is- no such requirement, the proposition is demonstrably unsound.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 6:50 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2017 at 6:52 pm by Amarok.)
Nope it's religions your just trying hardiest to try an paint it as if it isn't . So you don't have to defend you actual position . Because it is not defendable . So you cloak it in vague notions . A tired ID tactic .
Seek strength, not to be greater than my brother, but to fight my greatest enemy -- myself.
Inuit Proverb
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 6:55 pm
(August 14, 2017 at 6:50 pm)Tizheruk Wrote: Nope it's religions your just trying hardiest to try an paint it as if it isn't . So you don't have to defend you actual position . Because it is not defendable . So you cloak it in vague notions . A tired ID tactic .
To be fair to R, it is the same tactic we get from every religion, "I am not doing what you think I am doing and know I am doing, I will just pretend I am not doing it in hopes they don't figure out what I am doing."
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 7:02 pm
(This post was last modified: August 14, 2017 at 7:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I'm really trying to wrap my head around this. So far as we can tell, chemistry works like so;
-If substance a and substance b are subjected to condition c, then reaction d occurs.
most emphatically -not- like so;
-If substance a and substance b are subjected to condition c, then reaction d occurs...but only if sally is the one mixing them. If john, then reaction e. If no one, then no reaction.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Organic Molecules Found 400 Light Years From Earth
August 14, 2017 at 8:21 pm
(August 14, 2017 at 7:02 pm)Khemikal Wrote: I'm really trying to wrap my head around this. So far as we can tell, chemistry works like so;
-If substance a and substance b are subjected to condition c, then reaction d occurs.
most emphatically -not- like so;
-If substance a and substance b are subjected to condition c, then reaction d occurs...but only if sally is the one mixing them. If john, then reaction e. If no one, then no reaction.
I am not trying to say that there are different reactions depending on who or what is doing the mixing. I'm saying even the simplest cell is really complicated. To reproduce, many specific materials and conditions must be met. It requires various proteins, DNA, RNA, certain cellular machinery made up of various materials. Each of the proteins is made up of twenty amino acids that are only in the L form (not D). So the probabilities of the specific sequences needed is along the lines of 1/20 to the nth power where n is the length of the protein. The DNA and RNA are each made of specific sequences of 4 nucleotides or ribonucleotides. So the probabilities of the specific sequences needed is along the lines of 1/4 to the nth power where N is the length of the DNA and RNA respectively. The lengths of DNA, RNA, and protein sequences are quite long so the denominator gets huge really quickly. Consequently, the probabilities of all those materials and conditions coming together via random mixing of the matter of the universe is extremely small even given billions of years.
So my objection would be a probabilistic one.
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