The Official "Damned Trump" Thread

[Chad32]

I think we need to take a long look at what kind of country we want to be, and what kind of country we want as our allies. That may mean toning down, pulling back, and reflecting a bit, instead of trying to be everywhere else in the world while our own country swirls the drain.

[The Grand Nudger]

The fundamental flaw in america first or any other type of isolationism, whether it's a republican or a dem peddling it, is how much our own wellbeing depends on being the indispensable nation. I guess it probably seems intuitive to imagine that helping others less will put us in a position to help ourselves more, but it's simply not true.

Global stability, and yes..promoting democracy... is in our own defense and economic interest, as it maintains a world order with ourselves at the top, and all of the benefits that this entails. This is why so much work has been done to convince americans to give up on the globe. It won't help us, it helps despots, cut out and diminished and curtailed by that world order.

Still, sure, we should always think about the kind of country we want to be, and the kinds of allies we want to have. We might also want to look at why we're swirling the drain, in whatever way that we are. The explanation for that will literally -never- be "helped the other guys too much".

You, ofc, don't have to agree with the above on principle. You can very much be against the current world order - but it will remain a fact that maintaining it is in our own best interests. The world can suck, it can fail to meet our expectations or align to the better angels of our nature, but it is what it is. Ceding it, chunk by chunk, to bad actors won't improve that. On that note, I can tell you exactly what kind of country and allies I don't have any interest in. A country that buddies up to fuckers like Assad, Erdogan, and Putin. Especially...especially when it's done by wrapping ourselves in a flag and swearing that we're doing it for our troops. This is what Tulsi Gabbard does, between bouts of regurgitating far right talking points and Hitlery Killington conspiracy theories on Fox, as a self described hawk on terrorism.

[Chad32]

Maintaining something for the sake of it isn't always in our best interests. That's why the world changes constantly. And usually it goes farther to the left over time.

I'm not trying to be an isolationist, but even Jesus told people to take the plank out of their own eye before telling other people how to take the splinter out of theirs. Omg, dictators and despots? We've gone from a republic to an oligarchy where corporations are people. We started a war on terror, and it's gone about as well over there, as the war on drugs is going on here. I don't know who we're supposed to be helping, but I don't think it's regular people.

Are things really better in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, compared to ten years ago? How are we making Yemen a better place?

[The Grand Nudger]

It's in our best interests to maintain a world order with ourselves at the head. Argue with this until you're blue in the face based on whatever evil you think we do around the world..and it will still be true. Even if we were the literal devil..it would still be in -our- best interests to maintain -our- hegemony. Pick a lane and stick with it.

A perpetual fact free round of both-sidesism is useless. Fine...fine..fine. Were horrible fuckers that do terrible things. The other guys are worse fuckers that do more horrible things. Yes, it's better in Iraq and Afghanistan than it used to be - not because we're just so damned good, or good at this..but because it completely blew beforehand. If you want to know who we're helping around the world, then educate yourself. It's not hard to find that info.

Yemens a great counterexample to positions like the one espoused by Tulsi. We should, and could be helping in Yemen.,..but we're just too cozy with a clutch of dictators who have their own interests in the region, huh? OFC, we have provided them with over 700 million in assistance in the last couple of years....so there's that.

There's such a thing as being critical of american policy decisions, and such a thing as swallowing anti-american propaganda hook line and sinker. They are not the same things. I assume you're aiming for the former, rather than the latter.

[Chad32]

Yeah, I don't think it's propaganda to point out that we shouldn't be doing what we're doing. Yes, I know it's in America's best interest to rule the world through force of arms. Just like it's in my best interests to just beat the shit out of everyone around me to get what I want all the time. Except I don't like being a bully, or psychopath. Whether or not there are worse administrations out there than our country's is likely debatable. The problem is, some of those really bad countries are our allies. Like Saudi Arabia, and Israel.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yet another impeachable offense:



Boru

[Duty]

It's in our best interests to maintain a world order with ourselves at the head.  Argue with this until you're blue in the face based on whatever evil you think we do around the world..and it will still be true.  Even if we were the literal devil..it would still be in -our- best interests to maintain -our- hegemony. 

Only if, for example, Americans would choose to have an extra dollar in their pockets over preventing a child having their hand blown off by a landmine.

[Dmitry1983]

The problem is, some of those really bad countries are our allies. Like Israel.

The problem is there are really bad people in America. People like you.

[arewethereyet]

Yet another impeachable offense:



Boru

This is an appropriate picture to hang on the fridge to help control your eating...it certainly made me gag when I saw it.

Good lord - the depths this assclown will go to never ceases to amaze me.

[Chad32]

The problem is, some of those really bad countries are our allies. Like Israel.

The problem is there are really bad people in America. People like you.

If I'm the bad guy for not liking what our government does around the world, and even to its own people, then I feel no remorse for it. I'll just be the villain of the story who wants less war. We can't control what other countries do, but we can control what we do, and how we act. At least we should be able to.