DNA Proves Existence of a Designer

[Anomalocaris]

Stellar fusion that would have had to have occured spontaneously though, right? And what caused this stellar fusion?

No, stellar fusion does not occur spontaneously.  It has cause and stimuli.  Not that this matters, because we're already well past where you chose to insert the meat fairy...huh?  How's the whole

"Dear internet, why am I so inexcusably dumb?" project going, anyway?

I think current predominant thinking amongst cosmologists who actually care to form rigorous hypothesis that can in principle be tested is the cause of actual occurances of Stellar fusion is believed to be ultimately spontaneous.   The cause is quantum fluctuation very early in the history of the universe that made the density of matter and energy slightly uneven.  These unevenness expanded with the early expansion of the universe until the scale of unevenness is hundreds of millions of light years.   These unevenness then led to runaway gravitational clumping of matter into protogalaxies and within galaxies molecular clouds, and the molecular clouds further collapse Spontaneously under granvity until pressure and temperature sufficient sufficient to initiate stellar fusion occurs.

If there was no spontaneous quantum fluctuation, then the universe would be perfectly smooth and even, and these would be no nucleus of overdensity to draw in more primordial hydrogen and helium for the process of stellar nuclear synthesis to occur to create higher atomic weight elements, and from there the complex chemistry needed to create and support life.

The initial impetus for the Big Bang could well have been a purely random quantum event. The fact that the result of Big Bang can organized themselves into star, planets and biochemistry is also the result of random quantum events. One thing to note is that the fact that an event can be triggered by a purely random trigger does not mean its outcome is necessarily also purely random.

[The Grand Nudger]

You just asked every question on the 1st grade common core assessment, Ev.  I thought you had a degree?  From where.....................?

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No, stellar fusion does not occur spontaneously.  It has cause and stimuli.  Not that this matters, because we're already well past where you chose to insert the meat fairy...huh?  How's the whole

"Dear internet, why am I so inexcusably dumb?" project going, anyway?

I think current predominant thinking amongst cosmologists who actually care to form rigorous hypothesis that can in principle be tested is the cause of actual occurances of Stellar fusion is believed to be ultimately spontaneous.   The cause is quantum fluctuation very early in the history of the universe that made the density of matter and energy slightly uneven.  These unevenness expanded with the early expansion of the universe until the scale of unevenness is hundreds of millions of light years.   These unevenness then led to runaway gravitational clumping of matter into protogalaxies and within galaxies molecular clouds, and the molecular clouds further collapse Spontaneously under granvity until pressure and temperature sufficient sufficient to initiate stellar fusion occurs.

Taking it back far enough, sure, but the scope of the question Ev asked was whether stellar fusion, itself, was spontaneous.  It is not.  It has cause and stimuli. You described both above.

[Everena]

Ok, so take me to the argument that convinced you that complexity could spontaneously occur from simplicity. I don't care if you use your own words, or someone else's, but what argument is it that has you so convinced this could all come to be without an intelligent creator?

I already did Snookums. At least twice.
Google : Chaos Theory ... and you might learn something.
BTW, it's not an "argument" ... it's an observed fact.

Really? The chaos theory by its own definition only covers nonlinear things, which do not include chemical reactions (the cause of the entire universe)

https://fractalfoundation.org/resources/...os-theory/

[Bucky Ball]

Everena Wrote:
Stellar fusion that would have had to have occurred spontaneously though, right? And what caused this stellar fusion?

Wrong
There are things that happen spontaneously ... I thought you said you took science.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...icles-rea/

"it is impossible to predict the decay of individual atoms."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/radio..._decay.htm

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I already did Snookums. At least twice.
Google : Chaos Theory ... and you might learn something.
BTW, it's not an "argument" ... it's an observed fact.

Really? The chaos theory by its own definition only covers nonlinear things, which do not include chemical reactions (the cause of the entire universe)

https://fractalfoundation.org/resources/...os-theory/

You have no idea what you just said. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

BTW Snookums, there WERE NO "CHEMICALS" to cause anything until AFTER the universe began.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology...ionization
OMG .... I must see my doctor ... I have a headache from all the face palming from the stupid, here.

[Everena]

Everena Wrote:
Stellar fusion that would have had to have occurred spontaneously though, right? And what caused this stellar fusion?

Wrong
There are things that happen spontaneously ... I thought you said you took science.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...icles-rea/

"it is impossible to predict the decay of individual atoms."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/radio..._decay.htm

Things that happen spontaneously how? Explain how the big rock in your front yard could spontaneously create a universe and all conscious life.

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Everena Wrote:
Stellar fusion that would have had to have occurred spontaneously though, right? And what caused this stellar fusion?

Wrong
There are things that happen spontaneously ... I thought you said you took science.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...icles-rea/

"it is impossible to predict the decay of individual atoms."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/radio..._decay.htm

---

Really? The chaos theory by its own definition only covers nonlinear things, which do not include chemical reactions (the cause of the entire universe)

https://fractalfoundation.org/resources/...os-theory/

You have no idea what you just said. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions.

Initial conditions that came about how?


 "Chaos" is an interdisciplinary theory stating that within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, 

Underlying patterns that came to be how?

constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, self-organization,

Feedback loops that are happening how? Repetition that is occuring how?
How could a "self" organize anything without consciousness and intelligence?

 and reliance on programming at the initial point known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions. 

A reliance on programming? Programming by who? Programming requires a conscious intelligent agent.
Initial conditions that came about how?


The butterfly effect describes how a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state, e.g. a butterfly flapping its wings in Brazil can cause a hurricane in Texas.[1]

The butterfly effect has to start somewhere. Where and how did this butterfly effect occur?

[Nay_Sayer]

This was a scientific thread with religious implications.  Then I was asked religious questions which is understandable.

Wrong
There are things that happen spontaneously ... I thought you said you took science.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...icles-rea/

"it is impossible to predict the decay of individual atoms."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/radio..._decay.htm

Things that happen spontaneously how? Explain how the big rock in your front yard could spontaneously create a universe and all conscious life.

DETAILS OF PROCEDURE

An aortic clamp is used to clamp the aorta proximally just below the renal arteries (figure 4). A second aortic clamp is placed tangentially to occlude the iliac vessels and the lumbar arteries, as depicted in figures 4 and 5. It is important to have the distal aorta freed sufficiently so that this clamp can be placed far posteriorly to avoid interference with the arteriotomy and the anastomosis. A small vascular clamp should be applied to the inferior mesenteric artery, close to its origin, so as not to impair collateral circulation to the left colon. A linear arteriotomy is made in the aorta to a point just above the inferior mesentery artery takeoff (figure 5). An attempt is made to preserve that vessel if at all possible. The graft is beveled (figure 6a), and an end-to-side anastomosis is then created.

[Everena]

No, stellar fusion does not occur spontaneously.  It has cause and stimuli.  Not that this matters, because we're already well past where you chose to insert the meat fairy...huh?  How's the whole

"Dear internet, why am I so inexcusably dumb?" project going, anyway?

I think current predominant thinking amongst cosmologists who actually care to form rigorous hypothesis that can in principle be tested is the cause of actual occurances of Stellar fusion is believed to be ultimately spontaneous.   The cause is quantum fluctuation

Quantum flucuation that was occuring how?

very early in the history of the universe that made the density of matter and energy slightly uneven.  

Matter and energy that came to be how?

These unevenness expanded with the early expansion of the universe until the scale of unevenness is hundreds of millions of light years.   These unevenness then led to runaway gravitational clumping of matter into protogalaxies and within galaxies molecular clouds, and the molecular clouds further collapse Spontaneously under granvity until pressure and temperature sufficient sufficient to initiate stellar fusion occurs.

Early expansion that happened how? How could any of that occur without consciousness and intelligence? Inanimate objects do not do anything.

If there was no spontaneous quantum fluctuation, then the universe would be perfectly smooth and even, and these would be no nucleus of overdensity to draw in more primordial hydrogen and helium for the process of stellar nuclear synthesis to occur to create higher atomic weight elements, and from there the complex chemistry needed to create and support life.

Wow, sounds pretty amazing, (and totally impossible without conscious intelligence being involved)

The initial impetus for the Big Bang could well have been a purely random quantum event.  The fact that the result of Big Bang can organized themselves into star,

Nothing can organize into anything with out consciousness and intelligence. Inanimate objects just sit there doing nothing.

planets and biochemistry is also the result of random quantum events.  One thing to note is that the fact that an event can be triggered by a purely random trigger does not mean its outcome is necessarily also purely random.

It could only be random without conscious intelligence.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.


Uhmmmm.... "Inanimate object just sit there. Doing nothing."

Yeah, right. Those 'Inanimate ocean waves' are so placid all the time.

Or is Everena now going to parse their meanings down to 'Solid' and 'Not solid'?

Also have they acknowledged stellar fusion as actually "Being a thing"?

[Everena]

At work.


Uhmmmm.... "Inanimate object just sit there. Doing nothing."

Yeah, right. Those 'Inanimate ocean waves' are so placid all the time.

Or is Everena now going to parse their meanings down to 'Solid' and 'Not solid'?

Also  have they acknowledged stellar fusion as actually "Being a thing"?

The water in the ocean is affected by weather and it's environment or it would just sit there doing nothing.

[Peebothuhlu]

At work.

Bingo! Called it!

So, only 'Solids' can be inanimate?

So.....water NOT Inanimate. Ice IS Inanimate?

Also. How are we going with acknowledging/understanding stellar fusion, Everena?