(September 12, 2015 at 8:30 pm)abaris Wrote:(September 12, 2015 at 8:03 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: And that the camps started with the homosexuals.
No, they didn't. They started with communists and other political prisoners.
Depends on how you define it. They started going after political dissidents (mainly communists and academics who opposed fascism) in 1933, at which time they also began to target the "Homophiles". I simply left out the political dissidents as it didn't seem relevant to the issue of the racism of those who are holocaust deniers. But yes, the initial camps set up by the Nazis did begin to immediately incarcerate the groups you mentioned.
However, the concentration camps weren't invented from scratch, but rather were appropriated from a system of "alternate incarceration" that was set up as a parallel "civil commitment" system, for those who did not technically violate the law or would be difficult to prosecute, but were considered to have mental deficiencies that warranted segregation from society. It was a way of circumventing the pesky problem of giving full trials for undesirables. (We have a similar system in the USA, today, for pedophiles, where they are sent after their sentence expires, for never-ending "treatment".) They saw homosexuality, including women who were "anti-social" by rejecting men and refusing to have children, as mentally defective, and they put them in those places along with anyone else that was seen as a social burden (and often "turned in" by their own families), such as the mentally handicapped or insane, prior to the coming of the Nazis, but in smaller numbers-- the Nazis were masters of efficiency, I suppose you could say.
The Nazis had the bright idea to expand all that, and immediately began to make a big show of targeting communists and dissenting academics, as a means of shutting them up. But there was an already-extant history in Germany of trying to make society "better" by incarcerating the undesirables, and it was that system which the Nazis ideologically/sociologically capitalized on, in order to sell their product and consolidate power among the population.
It's hard to find citations for all this online, due to the "static" of the prevalence of the discussion of the Jewish Holocaust, both the actual history and the deniers, so I'm sorry I have not cited my sources, here; I read this in a book, in college, on the origins of the camps.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
