RE: The Paradox of Power....
September 28, 2015 at 12:16 am
(This post was last modified: September 28, 2015 at 12:18 am by TheRocketSurgeon.)
(September 27, 2015 at 11:38 pm)ronedee Wrote: And who else gets a million peeps to show up for lunch in Philly? You are in the minority of naysayers. And thinking that people will come to your senses. Senses that are based in material worth and flawed logic. That which only takes us so far. And that isn't far enough... by a huge margin! Because you don't have "all" the answers. No person does.
You know, it's funny you should say that, because we're the ones who always have to remind Christians who come in here that no one has all the answers; it's rather a central tenet of a skeptic's point of view. We also spend a surprising amount of time explaining to people that we don't base our values on "material worth", but on evolved primate social instincts and human-made culture, just like everyone else does (though they often don't realize it). What I suspect you mean is that by rejecting your invisible SkyDaddy's rules, you think we cannot be moral. If you really stopped to consider that one for a while, you'd realize just what degree of asshole that makes you for even thinking, let alone saying, that.
As for calling us minority naysayers, as though that's some kind of slur, you should really consider a couple of things on this chart:
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/05/12/ameri...2_1_310px/
(September 27, 2015 at 11:38 pm)ronedee Wrote: No, I didn't expect much here, as usual. I'm just reminding everyone that Christ is alive and well, and living in the hearts and minds of most people. If not in person, or religion; in concept and value.... and while all else crumbles around us. You can fantasize about the demise of the RCC, but its here to stay! Actually if they had the numbers that atheists have? I'd be worried!
Well, as you can see from the above that, while they're not all atheists but a broader category of "unaffiliated" (my favorite line in O Brother, Where Art Thou?, said by George Clooney), it means the number of people who just don't give a shit about religion in the USA has passed the number of Catholics in the USA, and your numbers are falling while ours are rising. Not that either fact has anything to do with the truth or value of either, but since you brought up the thronging crowds going to see the Pope, it's relevant.
(September 27, 2015 at 11:38 pm)ronedee Wrote: But, its not any religion, person/pope, place or thing that keeps "the" message alive. Its Hope! And that's something no one can deny, or compete with. You can point to all the bad people who ran/run the church, and kill the messenger (literally in Jesus)..... but you can't kill the message. And that is the whole point!
No but the message can kill itself. As we learn more about our world/universe, and as the lies told by the church become more obvious, our culture will continue to move away from religious thinking. It's not that the "bad people" ran/run the church, it's that there are other sources of hope and awe besides believing in magic, now.
(September 27, 2015 at 11:38 pm)ronedee Wrote: If we are ever to aspire to the God concept most were brought up on? Than we must first accept and follow the natural way to peace, love and harmony that leads us to life and happiness. Nothing else matters. Its basics. No matter what our opinions are of each other and thoughts of what life is about.... we ALL believe in Love. That is our ultimate purpose in life. And if there is a God revealed.... He will be found in Love.
Ignoring for a moment all the violence that has come out of the religious fanaticism of believers, since fanaticism in many non-religious things can also produce violence, I'm still rather taken aback by your comment about "peace, love and harmony that leads us to life and happiness". Do you think religion invented those concepts, or something?
God is not required in any part of that equation. Love is chemicals in our brain, an illusion, just like the sunset is just light being bent and absorbed by the atmosphere as our position earth spins away from the stationary sun. And that's okay. It's no less beautiful, knowing that it's not magical and it's definitely not Apollo riding his sun-chariot over the horizon.
Unaffiliated line, in O Brother, Where Art Thou?
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
