(October 8, 2015 at 11:38 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:(October 8, 2015 at 9:11 pm)Rekeisha Wrote: So you just know that some physicist says that no one knows and you accept it without question? Do these physicist possess infinite knowledge?
The only reason why their is order in the universe is because God keeps it in order. He made the universe and he keeps it in order don't by magic but because he posses infinite knowledge and power and wants it to still exist. You may not understand it but that doesn't make it magic.
You get extraordinary evidence every day but you choose not to accept it. The fact that there is life on the earth is extraordinary. The universe is vast, amazing and full of wonder and yet finely tuned. Our bodies have DNA which has a purpose and a reason to be there. It is not evidence that you lack.
What the heck is "infinite knowledge"? Do you mean to say that if we don't know everything, we don't know anything?
That's the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard. After the claim that the universe only has laws of physics because Divine Magic Makes It So, of course. Hard to get more ridiculous than that.
What have we said here that gives you the first inkling that we atheists accept anything at all "without question"?!?
I accept what physicists say because I have a good general knowledge of the claims of physicists, and know how the scientific process works: if a physicist puts an idea out there that is poorly supported or based on bad math or false assumptions, the other physicists tear him/her apart for it. It's the Scientific Method, and it's specifically designed to protect against the errors of individual human brains, however smart they are. I can do a lot of physics, myself, and have personally done the math to prove many concepts I used to just have to accept from experts who knew more than I did, but some of it will forever remain beyond my capacity. That's okay, because I have seen firsthand how the process of proving this stuff works, and I am confident that the physicists will continue to keep one another in check.
You need to be very careful speaking about what the "purpose" of DNA is; you're now on my personal turf. Not only am I a former biologist with a specialty in viral genetics, but my fiancee (a devout Christian and fellow evolutionary biologist) works as a researcher in a genetics lab. I definitely know what the proofs are for evolution, common descent, and so on. There is nothing "finely tuned" about our DNA... in fact, it's a marvel of inefficiency and malfunction, which is why cancer and deformities are things. The process is good enough to keep the DNA reproducing, but it's far, far from "finely tuned". They universal laws may appear "finely tuned", in that they work together to make the universe operate as it does, but the universe is also a mass of chaos and randomness; you need only look at the surface of any moon or planet to see what I mean. Even if one of the random asteroids or comets doesn't get us, there are dozens of ways the planet could wipe most of humanity out, tomorrow. The universe, to me, gives every appearance of being the product of random chance operating according to the way the particles just-so-happen to interact, a way which is demonstrable mathematically (that's why they knew the Higgs Boson would exist before they actually found it... math!), and there is no indication that it has or needs a divine influence to keep itself going. You're welcome to make an argument, of course, but be aware that I will spot bullshit the moment it lands on the screen.
What you call "extraordinary evidence", I call magical thinking and a lack of actual understanding of the world around you.
You made the statement that "no one knows" How can you know this to be true without knowing what everyone knows? (Or know someone who does know what everyone knows.)
You you know about DNA so you should see the wonders of DNA. It is not evidence you lack for believing in God.
