(October 31, 2015 at 5:48 pm)jenny1972 Wrote:(October 31, 2015 at 5:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I know...right...it's amazing, and yet evolutionary biologists managed to provide the evidence and reason that you can't, Jen. Perhaps you should try putting in the work, like they did? I recall, pages ago, you claiming that you believed in evolution..and that you weren't arguing against it. Were you lying then, or now?
Are we done?
well im not a scientist they are its not my job to conduct testing or come up with scientific proof . im not arguing against evolution im arguing against your claim that evolution has been tested and documented
(October 31, 2015 at 5:29 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Except the crime scene isn't billions of years old. It's still happening, and has been happening for billions of years. Critical difference.
Yes, as parts of it are further back in time, the details are harder to get exact, but we know how the overall process works. It's also why the whole science community has to work on it, rather than just a couple of them, as in a case.
yes the current process can be documented and tested and so we can be 100% sure about current evolution that has been documented
But that's just it; we can look at the puzzle of the DNA code and see into the past, because we know each generation had to inherit the code from the previous ones. We know which sites are not altered by Natural Selection pressure or recombination, so we can look for those sites and keep track of the changes. We call them "markers". By reassembling the slow process of change in the markers, we can "back-build" the tree of interrelationships. It's how we did the National Genographic Project, figuring out the migrations of every person throughout ancient pre-history, based on our mtDNA. Just looking at the "scars" left over from ancient viral infections, which got deleted but preserved in the junk-DNA (spaces between parts that actually do stuff) and passed down to each set of offspring down to the present day, we can tell that we are the cousins of chimpanzees; we share a common ancestor with them. We can use the same method to prove we and they (closely related to one another) are slightly more distantly related to gorillas. And so on.
We can also compare our results from this method to other methods we had used prior to 1985, when scanning DNA sequences really became possible. We have dozens of inter-woven threads of evidence, each of which would destroy our picture of the past if it did not back-up and verify the other threads. NONE OF THESE WOULD AGREE WITH EACH OTHER if any of them were wrong.
We can use those methods to confirm that the processes we observe today are the same ones that have always been going on. We can know this from visual observations (same stuff found in same layers, worldwide), from comparative testing/analysis of what we do find, and from chemical testing (including DNA, proteins, and other fun stuff in our cells). All of these methods must agree, in a field where disproving your fellow scientists not only wins you fame, but is the basic definition of what science is: peer-review means tearing down the other guy's ideas, if you can, explaining why he was wrong, and possibly setting out better methods of testing/analysis.
The short version is, we do know what happened in the past, because we see evidence of it, and we know that it worked then the same way it works now because that's what the fossil record and every other method of testing we have shows. Again, we don't need a time machine to know what happened because things that happen, especially things that happen all across the planet for billions of years, leave evidence that they happened, and we can put those puzzle pieces together.
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I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.