(November 2, 2015 at 1:43 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: I think we're talking past one another here, as I'm saying that Paul sees everyone as flawed with a sin-nature to do evil acts, but that Christians behave differently (or try to) despite those flaws because they are saved. Paul is clearly saying that all humanity has that tendency and thus behaves that way, including Christians, but that a saved Christian will avoid such behaviors through grace and repentance. Keep in mind that Paul said, "This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief." (1 Timothy 1:15)Actually no.
Paul is saying those who embrace sin are evil
Those who sin but hate their sin, or are ignorant of it can be saved.
The people in Acts 17 were examples of sinners.
The people of Romans 1 are identified as evil.
The people of romans 2 are just sinners.
I am not trying to talk past you, I am bring you something new you feel you already know but appearently dont.
If we can be allowed to get past all of this, the book of Romans makes a big deal between sinners and evil people. It also tells us God does not expect us to ever stop sinning in this life. We just cant embrace or love our sin, because that would make us evil. God has no room for evil people.
Quote:Edit to Add: I realize I'm not being specific enough. Your arguments that Paul is referring to two separate groups seems at odds with his perspective on the nature of being a sinner, and why Christians should behave differently, if they are saved. I think your line between "evildoers" and "sinners" is arbitrary and unsubstantiated, and he is not "clearly" referring to two different groups, there. It is part of a single thought; as you like to point out, the chapter-and-verse numbers we have were not in the originals. So I'm not sure why you're objecting to Ehrman's analysis of Paul's philosophy, since it seems to me that you're objecting to something that's not really there unless we squint and look at it sideways, and the vast majority of Christians see all humans as evil, sin as the practice of evil (that which is against God, the ultimate source of good), and all Christians as sinners-who-have-repented.
The word in Romans 1 for evil is:
κακός kakós, kak-os'; apparently a primary word; worthless (intrinsically, such; whereas G4190 properly refers to effects), i.e. (subjectively) depraved, or (objectively) injurious:—bad, evil, harm, ill, noisome, wicked.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...2556&t=KJV
This evil is paired with this word:
ἀδικία adikía, ad-ee-kee'-ah; from G94; (legal) injustice (properly, the quality, by implication, the act); morally, wrongfulness (of character, life or act):—iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...=G93&t=KJV
These two words describe "Evil men" or unrighteous men of Romans 1.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/esv/rom/1/1/s_1047018
Verse the words describing the sin of Romans 2:
ἁμαρτάνω hamartánō, ham-ar-tan'-o; perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly, to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), i.e. (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin:—for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex...264&t=NASB
Their is a vast difference between one who 'tresspassed, has faults, miss the mark, or offends.' Verse those who are iniquitious, unjust, injurious:—bad, evil, wicked.
List 1, the sin list. One does not have to even be aware that he is in sin, or maybe in a position where that person is not in control of sin. (as per our discussion on gay people) and yet can still be in sin. This describes the people of romans 2
List or defination 2 describes someone or a group who embrace or want to do harm/sin for whatever reason. this is the people of Romans 1
So the people of Romans 2 AND Acts 17 belong to the sin group. They were either ignorant of their sin or were "slaves to sin" (per paul in romans 7) They get a different treatment from God if they repent, than those of Romans 1. the evil people/People who justify, embrace and love their sin.
