(November 4, 2015 at 2:43 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:all except Paul hasn't mention "the way of Jesus"... Your formula introduces a variable that Paul has not mentioned yet.(November 4, 2015 at 2:31 pm)Drich Wrote: Book chapter and verse for your formula please.
Because in Chapter 2:10-16 Paul spells out we all sin with or without the law. (all are sinners/no good people.)
Those who love sin more than the truth/God are evil
Chapter 1:24/25 Those who wanted their sin more than God/truth are considered Evil.
Chapter 2 states Believers are still sinners/sinning all the time. Therefore are not to judge the Evil people, because we too are still guilty of the same sins the evil are. what seperates us is the love of sin the Evil have, verse the Love of God/truth we have. That's it.
So in formula form
Good= no one, not even the saved.
All=sinners
Sinner=Hope of redemption
Those who love sin more than God/truth= Evil
Evil people=God turned over to sin/No hope of redemption
Not all non believers are Evil.
While Paul is talking to the church at Rome, remember this message is a gospel message, meaning not everyone He is speaking to is currently a believer.
That's exactly what I said.
Sinners all + (know The Truth of Gawd™ + accept The Way™ of Jayzus) = Not Evil
Sinners all + (know The Truth of Gawd™ - accept The Way™ of Jayzus) = Evil
The difference being that those who have not yet known the truth don't need to add in the part in the parentheses, according to Paul, as they may yet be following The Way™ without having heard the message, though they might just as well be rejecting The Way™ without having heard the message.
It's still my formula.
Paul is just identifying the human condition in relation to sin and Evil. The point being we are all sinful and one can be evil with absolutely no standing what so ever in or out of Christianity. Why?
Because before we can seek atonement or redemption/Jesus we must see and accept the source of our sin/evil. We must first learn to identify the evil in our hearts. Not as a anti-morality term used to judge people, but as love of our sins. Paul is pointing out that we can all justify/Be turned over to sin if we ignore the initial right/wrong response God has placed in all of us.
I could bring this back around to my arguement on homosexuality, but lets go with adultry as the principle is the same and it pertains to the same sexual sin.
Now imagine your married, and some little hottie chica bebops over and wants to hook up.. Now God or no God in your life, what Paul is talking about (The auto response that in this case adultry is wrong) kicks in and the closer your are to the day you got married the easier it is to tell 'little miss can be wrong' to buzz off.
Now lets say you are stranded on a desert island or in prison for a while, or better yet just married for 20+ years and married life is not treating to the fun stuff like it use to.. So your mind wanders, you take a second look, you turn to porn to help you get to your next Cialis moment with your wife and his and her bath tubs. Or even a step further 2/3's of your Cialis goes bad before you get to use it, and it's you and porn that doesnt really work anymore. Now little miss Can't be wrong wants to hook up... Not saying you hook up or not, but the fact that it's harder to tell her buzz off is what is meant here when Paul says we are turned over to sin. All of the excuses one has made to justify just giving her your number, or the reasons you have for texting after you spouce goes to bed, or the pics or the 'chatting' that comes after. all the little justifications you make to your self to make this 'moral'/whatever you tell yourself that makes you and even your friends believe you are a 'good person' and everyone else who would identify this as sin as the evil one, is what Paul is talking about here. So again, we haven't even Got to the Jesus part yet. Paul is simply seperating sin from Evil here.
The truly amazing thing is his seperation is not down most religious/christian lines. It's not about your specific acts, but in accordance to where your heart is in relation to those acts. for example in chapter 2:3 He clearly say "you do the same things the evil people do." So being evil has nothing to do with specific acts but our justification/want/love for them.
In the hammer of homosexuality thread that is why I said it was so dangerous try and legitmize a homosexual relationship with a wedding. Because simple redeemable sin becomes evil. Which is litterally spelled out in the Romans 1 list of evil.
