(November 9, 2015 at 7:26 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I have.So what does that say about someone who gets it wrong?
Here's the thing: Christianity is not hard to decipher.
Quote:The bible has a shit ton of detail about lineages and whatnot, but the basic story is very simple -less than 1/16th of the total volume is dedicated to geneologies.
Quote:Mankind is cursed with sin due to Adam and Eve engaging in the Original Sin."Original sin' is not a topic mentioned or taught by the bible.
Quote:God does stuff with the Jews,As well as Everyone else
Quote:makes commandments, demands sacrifices, smites people, etc.This was not so from the start.. there are a few thousand years between Adam's first day out of the garden and when any of that was true. So why the need for it? "pop morality" and the decline of man's ablity to identify right and wrong.
Quote:After a time, he decides to give humanity an out, so he sends himself (or, a portion of himself) down to live among the people and teach them the right way to live.Actually the 'out' has been their from the beginning. That's what the sacrifices were all about. It was to train and ingrain what a sacrifice meant and the depth of what God was actually doing when He sent Jesus to be that final sacrifice.
Quote:Cue: virgin birth, blah blah blahWhy did he do those things?
Jesus performs some miracles, gains a following among the locals
Quote:, and becomes a threat to Roman control of the area.
If you remember, "Rome" Pilate wanted to let him go because he found nothing wrong with Him/He hadn't broken any Roman Law. He washed his hands of Him, and put his death on the jews.
Quote: Claims to have fulfilled the old prophecies of the coming messiah, but, eh, let's agree to disagree.If you want to resolve this disagreement I can point to 353 prophecies, and show you where/how they were full filled.
Quote:He gets sold out by Judas, learns about it/already knew it would happen, has a crisis of conscious where he prays...The selling out happened after the prayer.
Quote:to himself (lol),God is a title not a name. Jesus prayes to God the Father.
Quote:and lets himself be tortured and crucified to death.... Holy Crap you got one completely right! good for you!!
Quote:In doing so, since he was the epitome of innocence and righteousness, his sacrifice magically gives the rest of humanity a way out of perpetual sin...Their no magic about it. Jesus' Death and blood shed is the Physical manifestation of the Pain endured by god to forgive sins. We have been given this physical example of pain so we could have some idea of the Spiritual cost. In so far as we can learn to respect what has been given so that we may not be held to account for the sin we have committed.
Quote: so long as they believe that Jesus was actually the messiah, of course.Belief, forcing one to act, not just an acknoweledgement.
Quote:Jesus is resurrected three days later, does a quick farewell tour/victory lap, and rejoins himself (lol) in heaven.Jesus hung around for 40 days after his resurrection.
Quote:You can quibble about the details all you want. That's the crux of the story. The blood price paid by Jesus saves humanity, who would otherwise all be sent to writhe and burn in the hell his Phase 2 form created earlier."The details" are the whole point.. Knowing the 'crux' without the details is the same as knowing how a movie ends with out the work up/without the details of the story. The whole point of a movie is the whole journey, not just how it ends. What if i gave you the ending of the next starwars movie before you got to see it, what would you call that?
Whether you like star wars or not the point is discovering the 'crux' of a story is not the reason we go to the movies and watch them. its the whole journey, its the details leading up to the 'crux' that gives a movie it's value. The same is true here. Yes you can boil Jesus whole life down to your 'crux', but what gives His work any real meaning are in the details of his story. Which by the way maybe why so many Christians have the 'proof' of God that illudes you and everyone else who just seek the 'crux.'
Quote:It's a story with a ton of problems. Masturbating over the details of the story doesn't address those problems. And because the problems are so systemic (you need to take the bible's word for, well, just about everything... sorry, no; holy backwards morality letting someone else take the fall for what may or may not be my flaws; etc.) and obvious, I cannot take the tale seriously. Nor can many others.That's the thing, name one other work that age who has a better providence than the bible. I have said many times the proof of the bible is not found in the way you are looking for it (Even though no other work older than 500 years old has a more complete a more collaborative history. ) The proof in the bible is in the fact that it gives a set of promises, that God to this day still stands behind.
If the bible says do abc and God will give you XYZ then it validation is found in the receipt of XYZ, not in anything else.
Quote:So, to go back around to the beginning: why should I care about your attempt to educate me?Read the OP.
Quote: Is it going to fix all of the problems the core story has with:
I thought You did not want to discuss the details of the story, and yet here you have listed out problems with said details
Quote:Morality?What is more unlikely is you being honest enough with yourself to point these supposed problems out rather than just giving a random list of random "problems" and not tying them to the narritive in any way shape or form.
Biology?
Physics?
Likely not.
Or can you honestly not see the basic fallacy in reasoning here?