Ok so it looks like you guys have run out of poo to fling, let go back to chapter 3 maybe that will give you something new to 'digest.'
Remember the frame work chapter one identifies Evil people, and Paul gives a list of the things that they do. Chapter two Paul starts out telling the people of Romans do not judge the evil people (Meaning do not persecute them) because they in their beliefs are still in sin/committing the Same exact acts/The list Paul provided as the evil people. The only difference being the sinners of the Roman Church sought atonement for their sins, rather than try to moralize/make excuse for their sin.
romans3
So, do Jews have anything that others don’t have? Do they get any benefit from being circumcised? 2 Yes, the Jews have many benefits. The most important one is this: God trusted the Jews with his teachings. 3 It is true that some Jews were not faithful to God. But will that stop God from doing what he promised? 4 No, even if everyone else is a liar, God will always do what he says. As the Scriptures say about him,
“You will be proved right in what you say,
and you will win when people accuse you."
Here Paul is doing a little damage control in that He just spent the majority of Last chapter telling the church at Rome that they did not have to convert to Judaism in order to believe. At the same time however he is also saying this does not devalue what it means to be a jew. that despite what some may think the Jews did and always will hold a special place in God's heart.
So to recap, one does not have to be a jew to be Christisan, but at the same time being a Christian believer who was jewish does not mean their status is devalued either.
5 When we do wrong, that shows more clearly that God is right. So can we say that God does wrong when he punishes us? (That’s the way some people think.) 6 Of course not. If God could not punish us, how could he judge the world?
7 Someone might say, “When I lie, it really gives God glory, because my lie makes his truth easier to see. So why am I judged a sinner?” 8 It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Many people criticize us, saying that’s what we teach. They are wrong, and they should be condemned for saying that.
Here (verse 5) I don't follow all the logic Paul is using to get to his final point, but I do agree with it. I myself teaching from Romans have found both in and out of the church that people accuse me of teaching people to do wrong, or that I am taking away something from the law of sin. When I instruct as Paul instructs later in this Book. (and briefly through the following in this chapter)
When in fact i am not. the law remains and we are judged by the law. What most do not understand the law also contains a large measure dealing with atonement, as well as the thou shalls and the thou shall nots. I/Paul teach the whole law, that has the grace provided by Christ in his sacrifice provided. Those who only teach the thou shalts only teach apart of the law.
9 So are we Jews better than other people? No, we have already said that those who are Jews, as well as those who are not Jews, are the same. They are all guilty of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,
“There is no one doing what is right,
not even one.
11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who is trying to be with God.
12 They have all turned away from him,
and now they are of no use to anyone.
There is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their words come from mouths that are like open graves.
They use their lying tongues to deceive others.”
“Their words are like the poison of snakes.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and angry words.”
15 “They are always ready to kill someone.
16 Everywhere they go they cause trouble and ruin.
17 They don’t know how to live in peace.”
18 “They have no fear or respect for God.”
19 What the law says is for those who are under the law. It stops anyone from making excuses. And it brings the whole world under God’s judgment, 20 because no one can be made right with God by following the law. The law only shows us our sin.
The over all message here re-enforces what was said in chapter 2 about all being in sin. That ALL forms of religion are wrong. Their is no 'true Christianity' without Christ. That all man's religion By It Self is no better than our sin. Meaning religion does not save us. It is the work of Christ alone that redeems man.
verses 10-18 refer back to what David wrote in Psalms 14. That what he meant by 'scripture says.' In Psalms 14 David is saying unbelievers show these attributes, while here Paul quotes what david says and applied it to everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. So the question then becomes how can a believer's efforts be dismissed? Because of what he concludes in verse 20. "No one can be made right by following the law."
This means all of those who define their Christianity or any belief in God through their efforts in trying to just keep the law fall under the psalms 14 list/people. A good example of this if/when people believe they have the one right/true church. Or that they must practice some ritual or traditional rite.
The follow is how to now find 'righteousness' before God.
21 But God has a way to make people right, and it has nothing to do with the law. He has now shown us that new way, which the law and the prophets told us about. 22 God makes people right through their faith in[a] Jesus Christ. He does this for all who believe in Christ. Everyone is the same. 23 All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness. 24 They are made right with God by his grace. This is a free gift. They are made right with God by being made free from sin through Jesus Christ. 25-26 God gave Jesus as a way to forgive people’s sins through their faith in him. God can forgive them because the blood sacrifice of Jesus pays for their sins. God gave Jesus to show that he always does what is right and fair. He was right in the past when he was patient and did not punish people for their sins. And in our own time he still does what is right. God worked all this out in a way that allows him to judge people fairly and still make right any person who has faith in Jesus.
The above Should be the exact oppsite of what most legalistic Christians believe. While they may concede to one or two points the over all contextual message is very counter intuitive to a legalistic Christian. Most people bound in legalism work to earn their place in heaven, meaning one's good deeds must exceed their evil deeds, or you must be baptized a certian way, number of times ect, pray this prayer when you do this, or say this chant when you sin.
The Fact that Paul says "The laws is not our means to righteousness anymore" The law is only meant to point to our sin, and subsequent need for redemption. this invalidate all of those looking to 'earn their salvation though their works/ specialized version of Christianity. Paul emphasizes this in the rest of the Chapter:
27 So do we have any reason to boast about ourselves? No reason at all. And why not? Because we are depending on the way of faith, not on what we have done in following the law. 28 I mean we are made right with God through faith, not through what we have done to follow the law. This is what we believe. 29 God is not only the God of the Jews. He is also the God of those who are not Jews. 30 There is only one God. He will make Jews[b] right with him by their faith, and he will also make non-Jews[c] right with him through their faith. 31 So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? Not at all! In fact, faith causes us to be what the law actually wants.
Also note how he ends this chapter. Those who assume I teach lawless ness because I teach from romans only hear the bit about the law only defines our sin, and the seem to assume that it must mean we would then want to live the oppsite way from the law. verses 30 and 31 say otherwise. It says if we are truly justified by our faith/belief in Christ we are not bound by the law for our righteousness, but yet we will want to serve God through the Law.
I have used this simple marriage analogy to explain this in the past.
when I got married I did not give my wife flowers and showered her with love gifts and thoughtful words because I was under contract to, nor because I read a book that told me to. She did not marry me because she wanted or demanded that I do those things. I do/did those things because I loved her. It was my love for her that made me want to live my life in such a way as to be pleasing and joyful to her.
Like wise We are not saved because we are contractually obligated to follow a given set of rules. We are saved Because God loves us and our heart truly want/love Him. We then inturn follow his laws because we want to live our lives in such a way to honor and please God. Our obedience is our of love not obligation! What's the difference? Obligation promotes wicked legalistic behavior, and even bigotry and hate for those who do not follow suit. Those are the christian version of the pharrisees. To follow God's law out of love, produces tolerance and understanding, those who obligate themselves by making christianity a list of rules and laws to follow, do not understand what Christ died for. However as we will learn we have been given so much freedom, we can live in bondage to the law if that is all we can understand.
Remember the frame work chapter one identifies Evil people, and Paul gives a list of the things that they do. Chapter two Paul starts out telling the people of Romans do not judge the evil people (Meaning do not persecute them) because they in their beliefs are still in sin/committing the Same exact acts/The list Paul provided as the evil people. The only difference being the sinners of the Roman Church sought atonement for their sins, rather than try to moralize/make excuse for their sin.
romans3
So, do Jews have anything that others don’t have? Do they get any benefit from being circumcised? 2 Yes, the Jews have many benefits. The most important one is this: God trusted the Jews with his teachings. 3 It is true that some Jews were not faithful to God. But will that stop God from doing what he promised? 4 No, even if everyone else is a liar, God will always do what he says. As the Scriptures say about him,
“You will be proved right in what you say,
and you will win when people accuse you."
Here Paul is doing a little damage control in that He just spent the majority of Last chapter telling the church at Rome that they did not have to convert to Judaism in order to believe. At the same time however he is also saying this does not devalue what it means to be a jew. that despite what some may think the Jews did and always will hold a special place in God's heart.
So to recap, one does not have to be a jew to be Christisan, but at the same time being a Christian believer who was jewish does not mean their status is devalued either.
5 When we do wrong, that shows more clearly that God is right. So can we say that God does wrong when he punishes us? (That’s the way some people think.) 6 Of course not. If God could not punish us, how could he judge the world?
7 Someone might say, “When I lie, it really gives God glory, because my lie makes his truth easier to see. So why am I judged a sinner?” 8 It would be the same to say, “We should do evil so that good will come.” Many people criticize us, saying that’s what we teach. They are wrong, and they should be condemned for saying that.
Here (verse 5) I don't follow all the logic Paul is using to get to his final point, but I do agree with it. I myself teaching from Romans have found both in and out of the church that people accuse me of teaching people to do wrong, or that I am taking away something from the law of sin. When I instruct as Paul instructs later in this Book. (and briefly through the following in this chapter)
When in fact i am not. the law remains and we are judged by the law. What most do not understand the law also contains a large measure dealing with atonement, as well as the thou shalls and the thou shall nots. I/Paul teach the whole law, that has the grace provided by Christ in his sacrifice provided. Those who only teach the thou shalts only teach apart of the law.
9 So are we Jews better than other people? No, we have already said that those who are Jews, as well as those who are not Jews, are the same. They are all guilty of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,
“There is no one doing what is right,
not even one.
11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who is trying to be with God.
12 They have all turned away from him,
and now they are of no use to anyone.
There is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their words come from mouths that are like open graves.
They use their lying tongues to deceive others.”
“Their words are like the poison of snakes.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and angry words.”
15 “They are always ready to kill someone.
16 Everywhere they go they cause trouble and ruin.
17 They don’t know how to live in peace.”
18 “They have no fear or respect for God.”
19 What the law says is for those who are under the law. It stops anyone from making excuses. And it brings the whole world under God’s judgment, 20 because no one can be made right with God by following the law. The law only shows us our sin.
The over all message here re-enforces what was said in chapter 2 about all being in sin. That ALL forms of religion are wrong. Their is no 'true Christianity' without Christ. That all man's religion By It Self is no better than our sin. Meaning religion does not save us. It is the work of Christ alone that redeems man.
verses 10-18 refer back to what David wrote in Psalms 14. That what he meant by 'scripture says.' In Psalms 14 David is saying unbelievers show these attributes, while here Paul quotes what david says and applied it to everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. So the question then becomes how can a believer's efforts be dismissed? Because of what he concludes in verse 20. "No one can be made right by following the law."
This means all of those who define their Christianity or any belief in God through their efforts in trying to just keep the law fall under the psalms 14 list/people. A good example of this if/when people believe they have the one right/true church. Or that they must practice some ritual or traditional rite.
The follow is how to now find 'righteousness' before God.
21 But God has a way to make people right, and it has nothing to do with the law. He has now shown us that new way, which the law and the prophets told us about. 22 God makes people right through their faith in[a] Jesus Christ. He does this for all who believe in Christ. Everyone is the same. 23 All have sinned and are not good enough to share God’s divine greatness. 24 They are made right with God by his grace. This is a free gift. They are made right with God by being made free from sin through Jesus Christ. 25-26 God gave Jesus as a way to forgive people’s sins through their faith in him. God can forgive them because the blood sacrifice of Jesus pays for their sins. God gave Jesus to show that he always does what is right and fair. He was right in the past when he was patient and did not punish people for their sins. And in our own time he still does what is right. God worked all this out in a way that allows him to judge people fairly and still make right any person who has faith in Jesus.
The above Should be the exact oppsite of what most legalistic Christians believe. While they may concede to one or two points the over all contextual message is very counter intuitive to a legalistic Christian. Most people bound in legalism work to earn their place in heaven, meaning one's good deeds must exceed their evil deeds, or you must be baptized a certian way, number of times ect, pray this prayer when you do this, or say this chant when you sin.
The Fact that Paul says "The laws is not our means to righteousness anymore" The law is only meant to point to our sin, and subsequent need for redemption. this invalidate all of those looking to 'earn their salvation though their works/ specialized version of Christianity. Paul emphasizes this in the rest of the Chapter:
27 So do we have any reason to boast about ourselves? No reason at all. And why not? Because we are depending on the way of faith, not on what we have done in following the law. 28 I mean we are made right with God through faith, not through what we have done to follow the law. This is what we believe. 29 God is not only the God of the Jews. He is also the God of those who are not Jews. 30 There is only one God. He will make Jews[b] right with him by their faith, and he will also make non-Jews[c] right with him through their faith. 31 So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? Not at all! In fact, faith causes us to be what the law actually wants.
Also note how he ends this chapter. Those who assume I teach lawless ness because I teach from romans only hear the bit about the law only defines our sin, and the seem to assume that it must mean we would then want to live the oppsite way from the law. verses 30 and 31 say otherwise. It says if we are truly justified by our faith/belief in Christ we are not bound by the law for our righteousness, but yet we will want to serve God through the Law.
I have used this simple marriage analogy to explain this in the past.
when I got married I did not give my wife flowers and showered her with love gifts and thoughtful words because I was under contract to, nor because I read a book that told me to. She did not marry me because she wanted or demanded that I do those things. I do/did those things because I loved her. It was my love for her that made me want to live my life in such a way as to be pleasing and joyful to her.
Like wise We are not saved because we are contractually obligated to follow a given set of rules. We are saved Because God loves us and our heart truly want/love Him. We then inturn follow his laws because we want to live our lives in such a way to honor and please God. Our obedience is our of love not obligation! What's the difference? Obligation promotes wicked legalistic behavior, and even bigotry and hate for those who do not follow suit. Those are the christian version of the pharrisees. To follow God's law out of love, produces tolerance and understanding, those who obligate themselves by making christianity a list of rules and laws to follow, do not understand what Christ died for. However as we will learn we have been given so much freedom, we can live in bondage to the law if that is all we can understand.
