So your an Athiest

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Ok, lets see if I can get to all the points. You say that the multicellular organism that made the carving is a product of nature. That is just an assertion, and I think the theory of evolution has a lot of issues and I think that life was created by intelligence directly (I'm not saying it was 6000 years ago in a garden, I just think that is what biological evidence shows).

Are you saying cellular life doesn't occur within nature?

Here is nature:



I'm sure you have no issue seeing the cellular life, unnatural as it is.

You calling the intelligent force a giant wizard is an oversimplification.

I'll have you know my thesis, 'Bow before the Giant Wizard of Sa'aloth, holder of the Seven Keys and Lord of the Time Palace' thesis earned me a theoretical degree in quantum physics, thank you very much.

The argument is that when we see complex information systems, the default conclusion should be that intelligence played a role in its origin.

Those systems of information are created by intelligent humans, so yes, you are correct.

I'm not sure if you're wondering why people are suffering from thirst? Environments aren't perfect, but evidence shows that dry areas were typically more lush in the past. The fossil record even shows trees and other plant life in Antarctica. The idea that things were better in the past and are slowly degrading is more consistent with the idea of intelligent design than it is with the theory of evolution.

A smarter man might have noticed that you completely avoided addressing my point and went off on an irrelevant tangent. Lucky for you I'm not that smart, eh?

Your last paragraph asks a lot of good questions. I don't know the answer to most of those question, and I don't know how I could find out. The time issue is interesting, but not new. It could be that time is simply not required to do things as we think it does. Or perhaps the intelligent force resides in a place that operates under different conditions.

Or maybe it was the lizard people.

No, I did not mean to imply that cellular life does not occur in nature, I'm not sure how you got that. I'm just saying I don't think the origin of cellular life falls under your definition of nature.

I can't tell if that was a joke, but if not congratulations on your degree, but it's still an oversimplification. I'm sure you gave a more technical description in your paper. All I'm saying is that it seems clear that intelligence played a part in the formation of the universe and life. Intelligence is the only quality that I am giving this entity. If you want to give him qualities of a wizard, go ahead, but I don't think there is evidence of that.

The complex information systems I was talking about was the information system of DNA, and the molecular specificity of the proteins that interact with it. So yes we should assume a designer when the natural explanations fall short (this doesn't mean we can't still look for natural explanations).

I wasn't trying to bypass your point, I guess I just didn't understand it. Is it "Why is water so abundant in the universe, while there are people dying of thirst here?" If so then my answer would be that fusion within stars leads to large amounts of hydrogen and oxygen in space. These react to form water. As for our planet, it is covered in water. Over time water inevitably becomes more acidic and increases in salinity as it obtains minerals from land. Again it fits that our planet was more habitable in the past and is slowly getting worse.

Maybe it was lizard people, but they were very very smart.

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I know it seems strange, but nothing bringing everything into existence also sounds strange. No matter what answers the question of the origin of matter time and energy is, it is bound to seem strange. I simply think that life and the universe reflects an intelligent designer rather than random chance.

Have you ever considered that there was never an absolute nothing?  If you believe there was always an intelligent designer in existence you don't believe there was ever an absolute nothing anymore than I do.  I just think that what we see now comes from what there was before .. all the way back.  We don't know anywhere close to all the causal connections.  No one does.  That doesn't mean there had to be a magic genie.  To make that the centerpiece of your theory of everything doesn't show much real regard for getting it right.

Well it isn't easy to try to have a discussion on what there was before the universe that we can observe. You seem to think that an intelligent designer is illogical. I have a hypothetical scenario: if we one day created a computer simulation program that had conscious beings, and these beings started to realize that the space that they live in only works if the parameters to make the computer program work at very specific values. They then learn of their own complexity and begin to examine the digital code that makes up themselves. Is it irrational for them to conclude that they are living in a space that was designed?

This scenario is not so hypothetical. It is exactly the situation we are in.