RE: Why do Atheists defend Islam?
December 14, 2015 at 4:31 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2015 at 4:34 am by Amine.)
(December 14, 2015 at 3:14 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: No, actually you missed that I'm an Arab (yes; Arabic is my native tongue) So my translations are quite literal.
As a small Arabic lesson : slave in arabic is written "Abd = عبد". While the verse speaks about "Molk al yameen = ملك اليمين".
I have been trying to find where you are getting your definition of molk al yameen and what limited information I find pretty much all says it is concubines or slaves, "that which the right hand possess". As for "guarding their private parts", I don't see a significant difference anyway, like I said.
Quote:Hello ? we're speaking about 1400 years ago ? people with no homes ? poor people who got overrun by raiders and gangs of cutthroats ?
In the modern era, you have the homeless and...let's say millions of Africans ?
Or you're saying, that it's an unethical thing to agree with a homeless man to protect him from the cold and from hunger, in exchange of his service (maybe helping me organizing my office or watch an estate I posses?
Actually, think about the differences between this, and slavery.
You really didn't address what I wrote. What about their coming from prisoners of war? You've instead come up with this manipulative example of saving a poor homeless person from the cold and hunger. I find this to be rank apologism at this point.. if not dishonesty. I mean come on. Where to even start with this? If I wanted to help a homeless man, first, I wouldn't say I "possessed" him. I could "hire" him maybe. That would signify that this is a voluntary arrangement that he can leave whenever he wants. Apparently there are numerous verses in the Quran that clearly state that these "molk al yameen" are indeed lesser, unequal beings, who can be bought and sold (and apparently women are another naturally unequal category of their own). They are slaves. I don't care if he sort of encouraged good treatment and occasional ransom or freeing. Slavery is endorsed by the Quran, period. And yes, men were allowed to have sex with them, even if they were married already. Forcible sex. If there was ever any doubt, Muhammad himself owned slaves. And he married a 6 year old. Maybe they just had great conversations, I dunno.
Quote:It can also refer strongly, to the allowance of the "banging act" at all times, including (for example) the holy month of Ramadan ? why does your mind jump immediately to rape ?
And please, quote the previous verse so the context becomes clear.
Actually it says : stay away from sex during menstruation, after that, your wives are tilth unto you, so approach your tilth whenever you want to.
( Sura 2 222 ) And they ask you about menstruation. Say, "It is harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves."
( Sura 2 223 ) Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.
So in other words, honey bunny want to "tootoo" with me. But she's full of menses. So I'll tell her : dear, keep out for now, it's nasty even though I'm a vampire (if you get my meaning :p) . After her menses is over, it's fine to eat her private parts all year long![]()
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^_^. mmmm I don't see rape ?? Rather, a lovely description for women ?? , and a verse that prevents sexist from calling their wives names because of the menstruation. If you miss it, a lot of men used to view women as "lesser & filthy" due to menstruation.
I'm sorry but you have got to be kidding me. Why does my mind immediately jump to rape? Calling women "tilth" is a start. And, perhaps, the enormous problem of rape and pedophilia in Islam? Or the aforementioned facts about Muhammad? How on Earth would my mind not jump to rape? Even WikiIslam states right upfront: "There is no equivalent term for ‘rape’ in the Qur'an. Likewise, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an which even remotely discourages forced sex. In contrast, there are several verses in this book which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women."
"Whenever you want to."
A lovely description of women? Tilth? A place for you to sow your seed?
Prevents sexism???????????????
(December 14, 2015 at 4:00 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:(December 14, 2015 at 1:20 am)Amine Wrote: Yeah, and then you ignored the 2 reasons I gave as to why it isn't really cherry picking.
Except that in a book filled with contradictory verses, choosing one which contradicts another is, by definition, cherry-picking.
It is the same cherry-picking done by Christians and Jews, and for the same reasons: the believer chooses those verses which best compliment the believer's outlook.
Sigh. Are you really not reading my post or something? First I explained how there isn't even a contradiction. Then I explained that even if there was, there is an explicit rule that if there ever is a contradiction, the later verse trumps the earlier one. Jeez.