RE: Why do Atheists defend Islam?
December 15, 2015 at 10:33 pm
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2015 at 10:43 pm by WinterHold.)
(December 14, 2015 at 4:16 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Jesus condemned whole towns to hell fire because they didn't believe in him. When he returns he will torture everyone, destroy the environment, kill all life, and blow up the Earth. And if you didn't believe in him he will throw your butt into the lake of fire.
He's not a nice guy at all.
All countries in the world, promise you their versions of the "lake of fire" if you defy them.
F16 and drones, anyone ?
Amine
Quote:I have been trying to find where you are getting your definition of molk al yameen and what limited information I find pretty much all says it is concubines or slaves, "". As for "guarding their private parts", I don't see a significant difference anyway, like I said.
Actually, the Quran mentions this about having sex with a person who is considered "Molk Yameen" :
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(Sura 4 Verse 25 ) And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of your believing girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
::::
The verse is long, but I highlighted the important parts.
So, first you must acknowledge that you and them are from one another; i.e you're all brothers and sisters in the faith and all just the same.
Second, you must ask their people "family" for a permission; and of course you cannot just ignore the opinion of the girls ??
Third, you must "pay" them (the girls) the amount of money they ask.
I don't think that describes "rape" or even describing a "slave". Since when permission & payment were asked before having sex with slaves ??
Quote:You really didn't address what I wrote. What about their coming from prisoners of war? You've instead come up with this manipulative example of saving a poor homeless person from the cold and hunger. I find this to be rank apologism at this point.. if not dishonesty. I mean come on. Where to even start with this? If I wanted to help a homeless man, first, I wouldn't say I "possessed" him. I could "hire" him maybe. That would signify that this is a voluntary arrangement that he can leave whenever he wants. Apparently there are numerous verses in the Quran that clearly state that these "molk al yameen" are indeed lesser, unequal beings, who can be bought and sold (and apparently women are another naturally unequal category of their own). They are slaves. I don't care if he sort of encouraged good treatment and occasional ransom or freeing. Slavery is endorsed by the Quran, period. And yes, men were allowed to have sex with them, even if they were married already. Forcible sex. If there was ever any doubt, Muhammad himself owned slaves. And he married a 6 year old. Maybe they just had great conversations, I dunno.
The above verse contradicts you when it says :
"You believers are of one another". I made the line bold in the verse.
So the Quran directly says to you, that they are equal to regular Muslims and not under any case : lesser. And again, women too are included with this sentence.
If women are inferior to men according to the Quranic concept, it will be a shame for its writer to say : "You believers are of one another".
About the example I chose, yes, it's not a rare example; actually who would agree to become "Molk Yameen" but the poor, homeless & people without income ??
As for prisoners of war, again you fall to Sunni/Shia Hadiths about Mohammed enslaving the enemy.
The verse contradicts you again when it says that they must be chaste and not engaged in a relationship already.
About marrying a 6 year old, again you fall to Hadiths.
Quote:I'm sorry but you have got to be kidding me. Why does my mind immediately jump to rape? Calling women "tilth" is a start. And, perhaps, the enormous problem of rape and pedophilia in Islam? Or the aforementioned facts about Muhammad? How on Earth would my mind not jump to rape? Even WikiIslam states right upfront:"There is no equivalent term for ‘rape’ in the Qur'an. Likewise, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an which even remotely discourages forced sex. In contrast, there are several verses in this book which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against women."
"Whenever you want to."
A lovely description of women? Tilth? A place for you to sow your seed?
Prevents sexism???????????????
I'm sorry but it's a biological reality. Actually, all people were born when their fathers planted his seeds in the tilth (their mothers). So am I.
At least it's better than the term "creampie" and more civil.
A beautiful description of reality.
Or, would you like us to become feminists ? you know, Lacy Greene style ??
Denying a biological fact, is never an argument.
I wouldn't use "WikiIslam" if I were you. You'll end up looking ignorant. Actually, if it's forbidden in Islam to have sex without a contract, and without paying the lover as the contracts says, then how in hell would rape be allowed ?
And after all, here's a verse telling you about the punishment of a rapist :
(Sura 25 68 ) And those who do not invoke with Allah another deity or kill the soul which Allah has forbidden [to be killed], except by right, and do not commit unlawful sexual intercourse. And whoever should do that will meet a penalty.
( Sura 25 69 ) Multiplied for him is the punishment on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein humiliated -
So yes, rape is not mentioned, but if spend 5 minutes reading the book, you'll realize that a rapist will :
1-meet hellfire in the afterlife
2-might meet the penalty of 100 lashes with a fine grained whip; if arrested. He can't refuse the punishment, if the raped woman wanted him to get punished.