Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 24, 2025, 11:18 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Morality versus afterlife
#55
RE: Morality versus afterlife
(January 11, 2016 at 2:29 am)orangebox21 Wrote:
(January 8, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Old Baby Wrote: 1. When I say "nothing happened", I mean that I never had the awesome salvation stories that others did.  I heard other people testifying about when they got saved.  Many of them could pinpoint it to a particular date and could talk about all the immediate evidence of this great change that took place in their lives afterward.  For me, I never felt a single thing different.  I was sincere and convinced it was true and wanted to live a life for God, but nothing ever took place to make me any different when I got up than I was when I knelt down.
For some people the change is immediate.  For some people it isn't.  I prayed the sinners prayer multiple times and I never felt any different when I got done.  It wasn't until years later looking back I realized when and how I came to faith.  It grieves me that there was no one at the time to encourage you.  Sanctification is a life long process and won't be perfected until the resurrection.
(January 8, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Old Baby Wrote: 2. When I say that I never received any additional strength, that's exactly what I meant.  I saw other people kicking bad habits and forgiving their enemies and getting new positive attitudes, but I never felt any change.  Yes, I could give myself a fresh outlook and a better attitude.  I could try hard to kick habits and pray and agonize over my sins, but that's all that happened.  I never felt any additional power to be any different than I was before.  It was all human will.
What about Paul and the thorn in his side?  He prayed that God would remove it but God responded that His grace is sufficient for him.  Maybe that is the situation for you.  Maybe God was bringing you to trust only in Him and not in yourself.
(January 8, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Old Baby Wrote: 3. You're suggesting it was the "accuser" aka Satan who made me feel guilty for my sins, not God.  Even as a believer, I never understood this.  God hates sin.  Satan loves sin.  Why would Satan make me feel bad about sinning?  Why would God be the one saying "Don't worry about your sin because my son took care of that."  It makes no sense and always seemed to be a perversion of scripture to me.  I think it's entirely more likely that my guilt was a result of the conditioning of my conscience to accept that sin as defined by the bible is a moral crime.
At the cross Jesus blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us (Col. 2:14).  The greek word translated here as 'blotted out' is likened to the erasing of a chalk board.  The ordinances that are against us have to do with the law.  One effect of the law is our sin debt to God.  Couple that with 2 Corinthians 5:21 where we are made the righteousness of God.  So God, having completely erased our sin debt and having given us His righteousness, has no reason to accuse us of anything.  This is strictly in the context of salvation (soteriology).  We are still in a process of sanctification (being conformed to the image and likeness of Christ), and in this sense we sin and God is bringing us into Christ's image, but in the legal sense (soteriologically) we are declared righteous (without sin).
(January 8, 2016 at 12:55 pm)Old Baby Wrote: P.S. To address your signature... yes, I would.
You're the first to address the question, kudos!

I was in religion since birth.  I'm 36 years old.  I also repented and said the sinners prayer countless times.  I wrote down the dates.  I kept diaries.  I spent entire days doing nothing but studying the bible.  I prayed and tried hard to be the person God wanted me to be.  I never tried to rationalize my shortcomings, knowing that doing so would be silly since God can see through all of that BS.  I did have Christians around me who supported me and encouraged me, and I did the same for them.  I was a good guy who by all appearances was very moral and strong in my convictions.  In the strictest sense, I was actually much more outwardly moral than many of my brethren, e.g. less judgmental, more understanding, etc. 

In spite of all that, I was never able to have the emotional experiences that others had.  I could never testify of that love that surpasses understanding.  I was doing it because I thought it was the ONLY way and praying for God to make me what he wanted me to be.  In spite of all that, I felt nothing.  Nothing.  Nothing.  Nothing but guilt for the sins that I could not overcome and fear that God would say "Depart from me."  I reject the rationale that Satan was to blame, because God is supposed to be all loving and omnipotent.  It's similar to the notion that all-loving forgiving God stood by with his arms folded and watched Satan deceive his children, then disowned them.  It's just a silly, childish notion.

I never said I was asking God to miraculously take away my bad habits or miraculously cure me.  My "bad habits" were just my normal biological urges that I felt very guilty for having.  I did wonder why all my prayers and repenting did not make me one bit stronger to deal with these things.  Resisting was just an act of human will.  I could go sometimes a month resisting my temptations, but then I would succumb to temptation and have to start over from the very beginning with all the guilt that comes along with it.  All the prayer and dedicating my life to God did not leave me any better equipped to deal with my sins.  It was always the same cycle - willing myself to be good, inevitably failing, then repenting while knowing I was going to fail again.

Still, don't think this was my whole reason for not believing.  Realizing that faith and prayer made no difference was only one nail in the coffin for my faith.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by abaris - January 6, 2016 at 1:24 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 1:26 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by abaris - January 6, 2016 at 1:29 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Excited Penguin - January 23, 2016 at 8:11 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 1:36 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 6, 2016 at 1:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by brewer - January 6, 2016 at 2:17 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 6, 2016 at 3:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 7, 2016 at 1:32 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 7, 2016 at 9:28 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 8, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 8, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Excited Penguin - January 23, 2016 at 8:22 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 6, 2016 at 3:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Jenny A - January 7, 2016 at 1:52 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 6, 2016 at 11:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 7, 2016 at 5:24 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 7, 2016 at 1:34 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by TrueChristian - January 8, 2016 at 4:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 8, 2016 at 4:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 8, 2016 at 5:39 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 3:29 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 9, 2016 at 7:28 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 9, 2016 at 5:44 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 1:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 2:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 2:57 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Simon Moon - January 9, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 9, 2016 at 4:43 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Simon Moon - January 10, 2016 at 2:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 11, 2016 at 2:29 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Old Baby - January 11, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 3:45 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 3:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 3:47 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 9, 2016 at 3:49 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 9, 2016 at 4:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 7:05 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 9, 2016 at 6:22 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 9, 2016 at 7:09 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 10, 2016 at 1:46 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 10, 2016 at 9:40 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 10, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 10, 2016 at 10:36 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 12, 2016 at 12:06 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 10, 2016 at 10:41 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 10, 2016 at 12:43 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 11, 2016 at 4:18 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 11, 2016 at 5:36 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 11, 2016 at 5:41 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 10:39 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 11, 2016 at 11:01 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by miaharun - January 11, 2016 at 12:53 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 1:05 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by miaharun - January 11, 2016 at 1:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 5:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 11, 2016 at 5:53 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 12, 2016 at 12:53 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 19, 2016 at 11:53 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 12, 2016 at 4:04 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 20, 2016 at 12:43 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 14, 2016 at 5:44 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 15, 2016 at 6:12 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 14, 2016 at 5:47 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 15, 2016 at 6:48 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 16, 2016 at 11:12 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 15, 2016 at 11:36 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Divinity - January 15, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 15, 2016 at 12:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlif - by robvalue - January 15, 2016 at 12:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 15, 2016 at 11:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 16, 2016 at 4:30 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 11:00 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 16, 2016 at 3:54 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 9:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 16, 2016 at 9:14 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 10:02 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 17, 2016 at 12:41 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 17, 2016 at 3:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 17, 2016 at 3:25 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 17, 2016 at 8:45 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Pat Mustard - January 18, 2016 at 4:01 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 20, 2016 at 2:02 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 1:23 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 16, 2016 at 7:51 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 11:07 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 1:31 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 2:04 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 2:12 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 3:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 11:53 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 1:51 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 19, 2016 at 11:03 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 16, 2016 at 12:34 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 12:39 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 16, 2016 at 12:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 12:42 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 16, 2016 at 3:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 8:59 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Cecelia - January 16, 2016 at 3:50 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by KevinM1 - January 16, 2016 at 4:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ktrap - January 16, 2016 at 9:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 17, 2016 at 3:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - January 17, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 17, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ApeNotKillApe - January 17, 2016 at 5:31 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 17, 2016 at 5:32 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by ApeNotKillApe - January 17, 2016 at 5:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Reforged - January 20, 2016 at 12:10 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 2:00 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - January 20, 2016 at 2:44 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 20, 2016 at 10:01 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Drich - January 20, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Brian37 - January 20, 2016 at 3:28 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Pat Mustard - January 21, 2016 at 3:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Drich - January 22, 2016 at 11:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by SofaKingHigh - January 22, 2016 at 12:22 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Drich - January 22, 2016 at 1:59 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Grandizer - January 22, 2016 at 7:10 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by SofaKingHigh - January 25, 2016 at 5:37 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Angrboda - January 26, 2016 at 12:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 9:58 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 20, 2016 at 9:50 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - January 21, 2016 at 3:44 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 20, 2016 at 3:56 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 21, 2016 at 4:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 31, 2016 at 5:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Esquilax - January 31, 2016 at 7:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - January 31, 2016 at 8:35 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Esquilax - February 1, 2016 at 2:18 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 22, 2016 at 7:16 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 23, 2016 at 6:36 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - January 26, 2016 at 2:13 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - February 1, 2016 at 12:55 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 1:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 5:19 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 9:03 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 1, 2016 at 9:15 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 1, 2016 at 9:42 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 1, 2016 at 9:50 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 2, 2016 at 1:53 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 2, 2016 at 10:55 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - February 28, 2016 at 7:18 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by orangebox21 - February 3, 2016 at 4:08 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 8, 2016 at 4:11 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - February 6, 2016 at 9:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 7, 2016 at 5:11 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by Edwardo Piet - February 7, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 8, 2016 at 11:00 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - February 8, 2016 at 12:21 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by The Grand Nudger - February 29, 2016 at 11:34 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - March 1, 2016 at 5:02 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - March 8, 2016 at 12:06 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by robvalue - March 8, 2016 at 5:54 am
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by RoadRunner79 - March 13, 2016 at 6:40 pm
RE: Morality versus afterlife - by John V - March 10, 2016 at 7:28 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Evolution cannot account for morality chiknsld 341 55020 January 1, 2023 at 10:06 pm
Last Post: sdelsolray
  One God versus many T.J. 42 5497 December 6, 2021 at 1:41 pm
Last Post: Mister Agenda
  Does afterlife need God? Fake Messiah 7 1985 February 4, 2020 at 5:02 pm
Last Post: onlinebiker
  Debate: God & Morality: William Lane Craig vs Erik Wielenberg Jehanne 16 4450 March 2, 2018 at 8:06 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  Islam versus Judaism KerimF 22 9200 June 29, 2017 at 2:06 pm
Last Post: KerimF
  Morality quiz, and objective moralities robvalue 14 5616 January 31, 2016 at 7:15 am
Last Post: robvalue
  Santa versus god Silver 8 2977 January 15, 2016 at 6:41 am
Last Post: robvalue
  The afterlife and the soul Vincent 87 23843 January 11, 2016 at 1:54 pm
Last Post: KevinM1
  Religion is a poor source of morality Cecelia 117 23377 October 10, 2015 at 5:26 am
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  How flexible is your religious morality? robvalue 24 8754 August 12, 2015 at 6:14 am
Last Post: robvalue



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)