Could atheist westerners, please explain?

[WinterHold]

There are different approaches to secularism; the Soviets condemned Zionism for example and they were initially reluctant to allow Soviet Jews to travel to Israel. The problem is Christian eschatology; and to be clear many of these Christians are selfish (i.e. majority of  U.S. Republicans) and don't actually care about even Israel as it happens, let alone Palestine. They just want to see Jesus come back because they allowed the fulfilling of Biblical prophecy and some even believe that Jesus will kill all of the remaining Jews when he comes back (because they are not Christian). And they will stop at nothing to make sure the world plays out as their Bible says. If enough people are working towards fulfilling prophecy (and they have the incentive on then being able to say: The Bible was right about this) then chances are it will happen.

That's why the Gulf Cooperation Council are competing to build the tallest buildings. There is a Hadith which says the Arabs will compete to build tall structures so they have the incentive to build tall structures. They want to be able to say: "Muhammad was right all along".

Many people (secularists) support Palestine. Obviously you don't want to live under Hadith inspired Sharia. You can forget about Nancy Ajram if the Salafi/Twelvers/Wahaabis come to power.

So what's your alternative to secularism? I happen to think that theocracy would be worse for Palestine, especially Christian  theocracy, as that it was led to the Crusades (European royalty, even in the U.K. today, is often seen as getting their power from god). Jews have co-existed just fine in Arabia before even the time of Muhammad; it's only recently that it's become a problem. And it's because of the selfish Christians and Salafis/Wahaabis/Twelvers playing people against each other for personal gain that it's become a problem.

I think the soviets were reluctant towards any attempt to break through the iron curtain.
Furthermore, Stalin was a supporter for the creation of Israel, for the propaganda and opposition to grow stronger, was due to the siding of Israel with the west.

It's understandable then, that anti-zionism in the USSR, could've been a preemptive strike against a minority that Stalin thought it had loyalty that doesn't belong to the state.

Again: it's all about interest.  In Islam the concept of "the end justifies the means" is totally forbidden, while in secularism -correct me if I'm wrong-, it's totally accepted as a concept. One example on that is the creation of Atomic weapons, and the military tactical bombing. Secularism never stopped that from happening.

With religion, there is a known set of morals and code of ethics, that despite how the end seems attractive, the means must be controlled, watched.

As for the alternative, well, Anarchy is my way to go.
Let every human rule with the way they want, in their own communities, to hell with borders, nationalities & the mini-wanna be-God governments who control every bit of action we do.

Everybody should be free to to what they want.
As for me, I'll live in that world with Islam: I don't need to force it on anybody else (Sura 2, verse 256), so It'll be okay.
But secularism -after all- doesn't allow that. An anarchist, is an enemy of the state after It's better than religious extremism, yes, but in concept, it doesn't differ that much: it will be forced on people by the sword after all.

Ben Davis

Sorry, wtf?! Using your terms, Secularism is the prevention of religious mandate to be passed in to legislation. It makes absolutely no statement on thought control; the opposite of what Islam does. As a result, all people of all religions or none are able to benefit from the rule of government and are prevented from stopping others from doing so. So actually it opposes tyranny in its core.

Believe me, it does. When you ban religious ideas from being used and practiced, you are actually enforcing your dislike of religion.
Allowing people to act the way they want, doesn't actually fall to you. Trying to control others is the tyranny; secularism is nothing more than trying to control the state with enforcing a non-religious route; favoring one idea over the other: and enforce that concept; again and again.

People should be left to do what they want.

That's the thing, you have no such right because not everyone has the same religious belief as you. Governments' main concern is administrative governance of a nation not ideological control. Your misunderstanding, actually perversion would be a better term, of the purpose of government is your issue.

Who are you to decide what my rights are?
So you're technically saying, that if I was born in a certain state, then I'm fucked? that's it? I'm a slave? I can't decide the law I want?

Oh...I have to agree to the options you give me like a good slave..

Anarchy is the concept of taking down this evil. Nobody spoke about you, but if a group of Muslims wanted to live their way, you have no right to deny them that, or else, you are a slaver.

It's these chains, that lead people to be crazy everywhere in the world. Chains which are forced by the power of the state.

And that's why your blaming of secularists is not only unfounded but profoundly bigotted and unethical in both its premises and consequences. Why don't you try blaming the people actually responsible and stop using Israel as a premise to attack people of a differing ideology to you? All you're doing is being an arse.

Ah.. Accumalation.

Israel wouldn't be Israel, without help. A help that I believe that a certain ideology(s) helped to feed. Without the holes in that ideology, bad people could've not been able to use them holes to raise the state of Israel.

In other words.. it's not personal. Nobody said you're all evil. But the ideology has holes that I must cite.