RE: The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work
February 28, 2016 at 3:19 am
(This post was last modified: February 28, 2016 at 3:29 am by TheRocketSurgeon.)
(February 27, 2016 at 10:27 pm)Rekeisha Wrote:
You dare to tell us we're angry at god? That is, yet again, after we have told you about fifty times that I have seen that we do not believe there is such a thing as a god, any god, and therefore we cannot be angry or have any other emotion toward this non-existent being. However, this Lord Voldemort El/Yahweh/Jehovah of yours is worthy of discussion as a fictional character whom certain over-obsessed fans of his literature have decided amongst themselves is actually a real person. God. Thing. Whatever. It's not real, but your stories of worshiping Darth Vader Jesus Christ and his violent father/self are disturbing and revolting to us, and so we react with revulsion. I swear, talking to people of your ilk feels like trying to explain to a full-time Brony at a Cosplay convention that he's wrong, and My Little Pony is just a story, while he says horrible things about me in return. You simply cannot separate yourself from the fact that it is a story you believe, because you have wrapped your whole identity around it for so long. We're not mad at your deity any more than we're mad at Zeus or Odin or Allah... what we're mad at are people who tell us that [Allah] has vengeance in store for us for not being [Muslim]. (Insert your own deity and religion of choice in the brackets; I simply chose Allah because it's the second-biggest cult, after yours.) You are doomed, too, of course, according to the believers in Islam, for being Christian. Better fear the wrath of Allah!! (Seriously, have you read the Qur'an? The hellfire threats in there are much better than your book's.)
I'm also exhausted from every single one (or so it feels) of the thousands of denominations of Christian, each with its own unique interpretation of scriptures, telling me that I don't understand their religion simply because I will not describe Yahweh's actions in the glowing terms you reserve for him. A "good father" does not kill his children, nor torture them, for disobedience. He shows up in person instead of just dropping by every so often and leaving a book for the kids to read and enact among themselves, per their own interpretations of his often-vague orders and guidance-lessons contained therein.
I understand the Genesis stories quite well. According to your version, man was created flawless (as was the rest of the world, free of sin and thus death), and only after disobeying orders and eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (aka "the original sin", which many Christians consider the need/basis for redemption via Christ's crucifixion) did we become mortal, sinful beings, separated from god. The problem is that, if taken literally, this becomes a ridiculous thing: the Creator of the story must have known that his creations would be curious enough to eat of this tree of knowledge of good and evil, so placing it in the midst of the garden and telling them "no no no!" was tantamount to pushing the food into their lips. A parent who put an explosive device in the middle of the living room, told the kids not to touch it, and then when it blows them up says, "Well, you should have listened to me instead of disobeying my orders", would be thrown in prison. Under the prison! But with your rose-colored glasses on, you cannot see what is plain to everyone outside your cult religious society circles... so you tell us that it is we who simply "do not understand", rather than seeing that we once saw it as you do, and came to understand more.
As for the information about the origins of Judaism, and thus Christianity (and Islam), there are numerous books on that subject. I strongly doubt you actually would read-- or if you did read, would automatically reject anything that clashes with your cherished beliefs-- anything I'd suggest, but I'm suggesting you do go read a few books on the subject that are not written by people who are of your particular type of Christianity. You can read about the polytheistic origins of Judaism in any number of books on the history of religion. Indeed, some Christians I've known fully acknowledge the polytheistic origins and admit to the evidence, believing that God revealed monotheism to Abraham after people forgot there was only one god and everyone worshiped pantheons. (Half the OT is about them trying to slide back into their polytheistic ways!) But it's clear that the rise of El to chief-among-the-gods and YHWH incorporated into the northern Canaanite religious traditions, as the Hebrews coalesced out of the Semitic peoples of the area, led to the eventual abandonment of the "our patron god is the greatest of the gods" approach, and to the attack on those still practicing the old ways, such as the worship of Asherah, the consort (wife/girlfriend/goddess-companion) of Yahweh. And so on. The traces are, like fingerprints at a crime scene, still found in the parts of your scriptures that weren't fully edited out by the later redactors. You'll explain them all away, of course, with some ridiculous apologetics done by one of the fundy-factories scattered across the US deep south (and for some reason, Colorado Springs), like your idea that "belly to swell and her thigh to rot" is an idiom about sterility rather than about a miscarriage induced by that priest (blood on the thigh... get it?), if she's pregnant by another man while the husband is away. It would also have the effect of rendering her sterile, after that miscarriage, as the later verses manage to point out. You have so much about the history of religion that you won't be taught by your church, but which you really should learn, if you're to come here and presume to tell us anything, let alone how we feel toward your imaginary friend you say will smite us.
I have twenty years of experience that tells me you won't honestly research anything I point you to, and your demand for the production of evidence will mean work on my part for no result, so I'm just going to tell you what I've learned from hundreds, likely thousands, of books and hope you put that first book down and pick a second book up, one day.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
