RE: Can a xtian god be free?
March 20, 2011 at 8:34 pm
(This post was last modified: March 20, 2011 at 8:38 pm by Zenith.)
(March 20, 2011 at 6:45 pm)reverendjeremiah Wrote: LOL, where did you get these quotes? I never heard most of them before.Some I knew, others from here:
http://www.learn-english-today.com/Prove...s_A-K.html
Quote:My nose is running" sound much better than "snot is running out of my nose"..
Quote:Are we supposed to take the bible literally, or make excuses for it? Is the bible written to be accurate, or does it use slangs, shortcuts, etc?
First off, know that it wasn't God who invented the Hebrew language, and it wasn't God who invented the Greek language, etc. Hebrew most surely evolved from the Canaanite language, from whom they also took their alphabet (as I remember) - though that alphabet changed afterwards.
a bit of info about Canaan:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaan
Anyway, the fact that languages evolved means that:
1. They were made by common people, for the people, and transformed by the people.
2. There exist metaphors, as metaphors exist in english too.
3. Sayings and metaphors must have been even in Canaan (before Abraham), and so, it would be obvious if their sayings and metaphors were used by the Jews afterwards (most surely they spoke exactly the same language). Now how they got to have those sayings and metaphors I don't know.
4. As about the "running nose" instead of "snot is running out of my nose", something like this also exists:
Gen 4.1 says "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived".
5. In the bible there is also poetry, so metaphorical things are used in such contexts.
6. Hebrew and Greek are not English. This means that there are words and sayings that cannot be translated exactly into english (e.g. in english a certain word cannot be found to match exactly the meaning in Hebrew/greek, even in a certain context), and many sayings do not have a matching saying in english, so it's translated literally (as you would translate literally, "my nose is running" from english to other language - it would sound very odd in the other language). This problem with the languages is valid, perhaps for any two different languages.
Quote:Is the bible written to be accurate, or does it use slangs, shortcuts, etc?Your question sounds something like this:
given the text:
"Can you get square eyes from watching too much television?
No.
Is it lawfully to rape?
No."
One asks the question: Should this quoted thing be taken literally or not?
The answer, is, well... it depends on what is said! The first question cannot be taken literally, while the second cannot be taken symbolically (well, you can forcibly take them the other way, but it would be odd).
The same with the Bible: you can't expect all to be taken literally, nor all to be taken symbolically, etc. There are language peculiarities, there are different cultures, there are metaphors, there are laws/commandments, there is history, etc.
And by the way, the books of the bible were not written for scientific purposes (e.g. to help people learn biology, or cosmology, or any other science). Unlike many seem to believe...
Quote:"but the bible says several times that there are litteral "windows in the heavens" that rain comes out of, and that the sky is solid. Is saying the sky is solid the same as saying your nose is running?Well, if they could have seen literal "windows" in the sky (heaven = sky) when it was raining, from which rain comes out, then yes! Otherwise, no (it would sound like "look, a dinosaur on the street!" when the street is empty and dinosaurs do not exist, and the reality is clear to everyone).
And I've never found in the Bible to be written "there are litteral windows in the heavens that rain comes out of", as you suggest.
You know, many people believe that, in this 21st century, we are the geniuses, while those in antiquity were all retards. Such retards, that perhaps they could not distinguish between a cow and a dog. And, as such, they come with 'contradictions' such as "the locust doesn't have 4 legs" - as if those 'idiots' could not count the number of legs of an animal, etc.
I've even heard a muslim saying that in the 7th century (the time of the Prophet Mohamed) people did not know that the clouds were being moved by the winds, and he stated a verse in the Qur'an as a "miracle of the Qur'an" (a thing that could have only been revealed by Allah), which was talking about winds moving up-down (they were forcibly interpreted as "the winds are being moved by the clouds"). The idea is that the people of the 7th century were called retards, and that they could have not figured out that the clouds are being moved by the winds, while in the christian bible that is said as something obvious:
Judas 1.12 Wrote:These men are... clouds without rain, blown along by the windThis is a metaphor (obviously, men cannot be clouds). Anyway, the fact that the clouds are moved by the wind is used as "already known" (this is a letter to common people, not to 'scholars'), and used in a metaphor. And this is antiquity!! People knew that in antiquity! And 7th century people are called retards, and it's claimed that they could not have figured out this fact!
Come on, in ancient Greece there was also the theory that the earth was round (though it did not get too popular). If I remember well, they were not even the firsts to believe that the earth is round.