Islam in Europe: perception and reality

[Mudhammam]

So you're either a much better person than me, or dishonest to yourself or never asked yourself that question in all seriousness.

My point always was that it's easy to fart some philosophical bullshit about intent into the world. From your comfy chair in front of your screen. From the perspective of your comfy life in a first world country.

...A dissenting opinion which I'm sure you feel is even more easily expressed given that you don't live in a region overrun and controlled by religious sadists who would happily rape and stone your wife if you didn't follow their strict interpretation of Sharia law. Your antipathy towards a philosophically informed understanding of how arguments typically work is shameful really (and rather embarrassing for you), particularly, for example, when you could obviously stand to benefit from an education that might enlighten you about the validity of ad hominems. Your argument is just silly: You've never experienced war. Therefore, you cannot possibly have anything true to say about the logic of violence.

...Well, okay then. Great job.  

And by the way, you missed to answer my question about intent by about a lightyear. Intent doesn't solve conflicts. Diplomacy or raw power does.

Apparently, I did miss your point. So... what is it? My point--I mean the one relevant to the debate we have been having for about two days now--is that understanding intent is essential to assessing the ethical value of how wars are and ought to be waged. And in judging how we treat war, despite our blunders and the few maniacs who unfortunately don our colors, there's simply no comparison between the civilized approach we take, in which innocent life is valued and we seek to minimize civilian deaths, and those of our enemies, who do not.

That was the fucking point. Anybody home?

And by the way, if we're so good at heart that we want to rid the world of genocide and evil, why didn't we step in in Rwanda? Why do we support Saudi Arabia? Why do we look away in Turkey, where a full scaled dictatorship is in the making?

I think there was a case to be made that we should have stepped in and prevented the genocide of the Tutsis (And you?). There's a lot of reasons why we don't get involved in every terrible situation around the globe, such as politics or a lack of will on the part of the populace (who, in your case, apparently believe that all wars are unjustified... or maybe it is simply the wars that involve the U.S.?). And you pretty much answered your own question about Saudi Arabia and Turkey in your comments about Assad--perhaps another indication that you could benefit from philosophy, or you know, just like... thinking... and reading (your own words).

I tell you, even if you don't like it, because it doesn't interest us or it would go against our interests. So, go on, frame your well intended interventions and hang them over your bed to feel more comfortable when going to sleep. It's about interests, plain and simple.

And it is especially in our interests to not allow Islamists who believe it is their duty to kill the infidel or the apostate, most likely frothing at the mouth to die so as to enter into Paradise (all of which is explicitly sanctioned in the Qur'an and by the example of the Prophet, btw), to get their hands on the type of weaponry that could seriously cripple the world economy, not to mention free and open societies, on top of slaughtering thousands or hundreds of thousands of lives. And in judging how we go about this task of eliminating these assholes versus how they go about their stated aims, largely depends on questions related to intent. You are completely delusional in your failure to recognize that questions such as "Did we intend to annihilate that family?" "How can we avoid civilian casualties?" "How can we promote free and democratic movements and at the same time protect our interests?" versus the savage targeting of innocents--in beheadings, crucifixions, stonings, mass shootings, suicide bombings, etc.--make all the difference in determining the moral superiority of one side over the other, namely, in purpose and/or execution of military action.

I suppose, however, that you are so dense that you actually think the U.S. was no better than the Nazis (and certainly don't bring intent into the matter!), in their goals and execution of those goals during WWII, due to war crimes (arguably) such as those committed on Dresden, Hiroshima, and the like.

And if you think, I'm supporting that, you got another thing coming. I'm disgusted by that approach. I'm just not mirror jerking over how much better we are.

Well please, at least make it more coherent and interesting than what you've thus far delivered.