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Islam in Europe: perception and reality
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality
(April 10, 2016 at 2:45 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(April 10, 2016 at 2:11 pm)Mudhammam Wrote: You seem to be missing the point. On the one hand, you (and others before you) say that intention was "entirely irrelevant" to the people killed... Yeah... but in the same manner that a sniper who is trying to save a room full of hostages and accidentally takes out one of the innocent victims instead of the perpetrators; in which case, you might ask, "Did intention matter to the person accidentally shot dead?" Uh, no, but it matters to those judging the action of the sniper versus the actions of the hostage-takers!

On the other hand, your example, if anything, only spells out how important intentions actually are--my point exactly--for clearly in the case you gave the intentions were, at least in part, ill-advised.

I think I didn't make my point, then. Their intentions were absolutely meaningless because they lacked the tools to give their intentions actuality.

Yet despite knowing that, they clung to the comfort of their intent, and continued the bombardment anyway.

That is, to my mind, equal to deliberately killing civilians, overlaid with a veneer of self-serving rationalization. As such, the only real difference is what the killer is telling himself.

We're also ignoring that the USA (the nation under discussion here) happily engaged in deliberate, mass napalm firebombing of major cities, not simply precision bombing, with the express intent to kill enough civilians to make the war so horrible (terrifying... isn't that terrorism, when you use force and fear to get what you want?) that the people would cry out for the Japanese leadership to stop the war, as if Japan was a democracy.

ETA: If you ever want your blood to run cold, read some of General "Hap" Arnold's writings on the subject of the use of the USAF bombers, both pre- and post-nuclear age.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost

I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.

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Messages In This Thread
Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - March 28, 2016 at 2:37 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 28, 2016 at 4:25 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - March 29, 2016 at 2:26 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 29, 2016 at 8:05 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - March 28, 2016 at 4:02 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 1, 2016 at 3:37 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 1, 2016 at 3:43 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 1, 2016 at 9:36 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 3, 2016 at 11:13 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by robvalue - March 28, 2016 at 3:07 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 5:02 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Silver - March 29, 2016 at 2:27 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - March 29, 2016 at 3:17 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Regina - March 29, 2016 at 9:04 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 29, 2016 at 1:21 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 29, 2016 at 7:16 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Regina - March 29, 2016 at 7:10 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 29, 2016 at 7:23 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Regina - March 29, 2016 at 7:33 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 29, 2016 at 7:38 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Regina - March 29, 2016 at 7:48 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 29, 2016 at 8:28 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - March 30, 2016 at 1:37 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 31, 2016 at 7:29 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 1, 2016 at 9:54 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 30, 2016 at 11:32 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 30, 2016 at 12:13 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 30, 2016 at 5:26 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - March 31, 2016 at 1:54 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 1, 2016 at 10:34 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 30, 2016 at 10:14 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - March 31, 2016 at 10:52 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 1, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 2, 2016 at 1:17 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 2, 2016 at 2:18 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 2, 2016 at 3:54 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 3, 2016 at 4:41 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 11:51 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 9:45 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 4, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 9:47 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 2:47 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 4, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 3:07 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 10:10 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 3:01 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 5:37 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by robvalue - April 3, 2016 at 12:47 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 3:18 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 3:47 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 3:57 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 4:07 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 3, 2016 at 4:31 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 3, 2016 at 4:45 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 3, 2016 at 8:11 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by robvalue - April 4, 2016 at 11:34 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 2:52 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 4, 2016 at 5:32 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 5:38 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 4, 2016 at 5:42 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 5, 2016 at 9:42 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 4, 2016 at 5:43 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 4, 2016 at 5:54 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 5, 2016 at 9:53 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 5, 2016 at 9:48 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 5, 2016 at 9:54 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 4, 2016 at 5:39 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Dayron - April 5, 2016 at 12:35 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 5, 2016 at 3:44 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 5, 2016 at 3:57 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Dayron - April 5, 2016 at 1:18 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 5, 2016 at 7:08 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Dayron - April 6, 2016 at 12:10 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Drich - April 5, 2016 at 10:11 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 5, 2016 at 11:08 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 7, 2016 at 4:37 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 7, 2016 at 4:45 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 7, 2016 at 7:35 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 7, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Heat - April 7, 2016 at 11:22 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 8, 2016 at 5:25 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by Mudhammam - April 10, 2016 at 12:12 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 10, 2016 at 12:51 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 10, 2016 at 2:16 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 10, 2016 at 2:25 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 10, 2016 at 2:50 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 10, 2016 at 5:00 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by TheRocketSurgeon - April 10, 2016 at 4:12 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 8, 2016 at 2:30 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 8, 2016 at 5:28 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 8, 2016 at 7:14 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 8, 2016 at 7:55 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 9, 2016 at 5:15 pm
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 10, 2016 at 5:36 am
RE: Islam in Europe: perception and reality - by abaris - April 13, 2016 at 9:35 am

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