Islam in Europe: perception and reality

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I agree completely. I don't want anybody to unjustly die as a result of war. It's just a fact, though, that it will happen, and sometimes war is necessary. Do you think we are justified in waging war against a group like ISIS or the Taliban? And if so, don't you have to acknowledge that is a reality in which civilians will die as a result of our bombs; do you think that this automatically makes our fight unethical?

Btw, I'm aware that the U.S. has done some truly unethical and horrendous deeds in recent and distant wars, but I don't think that these are representative of overall strategy or policy when deciding to engage in military action, and certainly not representative of the overwhelming majority of our soldiers. Indeed, the case could easily be made that soldiers or commanders who have intentionally targeted innocents ought to be held accountable, more than the few instances in which they have; whereas ISIS fighters who burn pilots alive in cages or bury a pile of villagers in a pit are not merely "a few bad apples."

Forgive me, Mudhammam. I know this wasn't directed at me, but I feel I need to answer it, too.

I think we are absolutely justified in waging war against groups like ISIS or the Taliban. The question is whether what we're doing causes more problems than it solves (thus all the mention of our bombing campaigns, especially the drones, as a major recruiting tool for terror groups), and whether we're justified in the methods we use to wage that war. Further, when we engage groups like those, but ignore others like Boko Haram, it give the (strong!) impression that the USA only wages war when it suits our economic interests, and makes us look like total hypocrites when we claim moral justification.

No one is saying that ISIS (etc) are anything but scumbag thugs. Every one of them deserves death, in my opinion. And no one is saying that our soldiers are to blame for the policies their leaders ask them to enact (that's why we prosecuted the hierarchy of the Nazi regime, and left the Wehrmacht soldiers alone)... indeed, I'd say that a large chunk of the rate of PTSD and suicide among returning veterans comes from what they had to do, and had to witness being done, to their fellow human beings. One of the more interesting chapters in Phillip Zimbardo's book, The Lucifer Effect, dealt with the psychology of getting soldiers to comply with such immoral orders from their leadership, and its effects on those men and women. Everyone should read that book. Seriously. Here's a sample:

http://www.translibri.com/pdf/Lucifer_Sample.pdf

I also recommend you read some of Noam Chomsky's works which detail US actions (and the unclassified/declassified papers which support his arguments about our deliberate decision to engage in what could only be called state terrorism by any rational person) abroad, and how we get our people to support our war-adventurism. Again, keep in mind that I am ex-mil, and am not against justified, defensive wars... I just am highly skeptical of the claims of current and past leadership, given our record. And it's that record, of which other nations' citizens are well-aware, which causes them to be even more skeptical (to put it mildly) in the face of US bombs and Hellfire missiles falling on them, their neighbors, and their families.