(May 4, 2016 at 11:18 am)pocaracas Wrote: Page 7 questions remain sans answers....First, thank you for the questions! All 3 were insightful and well presented. This is partly what I was looking for in coming to the AF. I needed some time to read and discern the authors intent, ha! My time is limited it has taken me this long to get back to you; and it is still a work in progress. Here’s what I came up with…
(May 2, 2016 at 5:10 am)pocaracas Wrote: Welcome PETE!
I can ask a few questions...
1. Why is belief a requirement?
1.1. Why believe in stories written long ago, in a time and place cluttered by different religious and mythological beliefs?
1.2. Why is your belief biased by your upbringing?
1.2.1. Had you been raised in China, or Indonesia.... do you think you'd come to hold the same belief you do now? why?
1.3. How much of belief is a psychological crutch?
1.3.1. Is religious belief more than a psychological state? If not, then how do you explain all religious beliefs that mankind has held throughout the ages?
1.3.2. What do you say to the possibility that belief became a desired trait in societies, thus became evolutionary selected in?... but it hasn't been around for enough time to clear out all the non-believing individuals... and is a trait now in decline...
2. Are you aware of the Essenes?
2.1. What do you say of the possibility that the historical Jesus was an Essene?
2.2. Why, would you say, are the Essenes never mentioned in the bible? They were located in the proverbial "road to Damascus", after all...
3. Why the KJV? Why not something better, like the Vulgate? If you want to go sola scriptura, you should go for the purest, closest to the original possible text.... at least, that's what I would go for. I'm not very fond of the result of the broken telephone game (chinese whispers?).
Forgive my use of red ink and not using the quote function. I will try and suck less in the future.
Welcome PETE!
I can ask a few questions...
1. Why is belief a requirement? A belief alone is not a requirement for salvation. Even Satan and the demons are aware God exists. Believing is felt in the heart (not a scrap of knowledge held within the mind). Romans 10:10 “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness”.
A more encompassing question might be: Why are there any requirements? Answer: Love. Love can only be given; it cannot be coerced or taken by force. It must be given freely from one to another, and that is not to say it is reciprocal. Just because you love a person does not mean that love is returned. God desires our love and a relationship with each of us, but it must come freely. God will not force Himself on us. It is entirely plausible that one could analyze the information at hand, determine it to be true, and still inform God that they are not interested. I will readily admit I was a reluctant Christian. An existence free from rules, laws, and eternal justice sure appealed to me better than anything that would place restrictions on me.
1.1. Why believe in stories written long ago, in a time and place; by different religious and mythological beliefs? One would not believe anything based on the metric that they were written long ago, in a time and place…
Why do I believe the Bible? I have studied it and found it to hold truth. I do not see where science and the bible contradict one another. To the contrary, I see them complementing each other.
On the surface the bible can appear to be contradictory and hard to accept; especially when taken out of context. As the bible is studied, and one uses the Word itself to define and put into context the passages, it truly brings clarity and resonance to the reader of the authors’ intent. This takes time! Unless you are TheRocketSurgeon, who I am positive never had to study a day in school and made straight A’s. I wish I commanded that level of understanding.
1.2. Why is your belief biased by your upbringing? If I said this it is because I was initially exposed to Christianity and not some other religion. I may have had an initial bend toward it but that’s definitely not why I am a Christian today. What I was subjected to growing up is on par with many of the poor examples of “religion” many here lament from their past, and present experiences.
1.2.1. Had you been raised in China, or Indonesia.... do you think you'd come to hold the same belief you do now? why? Absolutely! As I aged and started looking into the big questions for myself: Why am I here? Where did we come from? What is the meaning of life? Is there a God? What happens when my children die? (I use children as we are all too often ready to sacrifice ourselves or write our eternity off, not so easy when we think how this applies to our precious children) None of the other “religions” could answer all of these questions in a coherent manner. All other major religions were deeply flawed upon examination.
Christianity makes some bold claims, and at times some aspects can be difficult to agree with. However a disagreement with something that is found to be true and authentic does not render it invalid.
I readily admit that I do not comprehend His motivation or actions in some cases; however I do fully accept it as truth. Some profess they could not love or serve a being that does some of the things the Christian God has done. This I fully understand.
1.3. How much of belief is a psychological crutch? For many a huge one! That is not to say a belief is valid or invalid. Many nontheists and atheists would use disbelief in a God as a crutch for what enables them to live free unencumbered lives.
1.3.1. Is religious belief more than a psychological state? If not, then how do you explain all religious beliefs that mankind has held throughout the ages? Yes, the intent is far deeper than a mere state of mind. Being a good Catholic, Muslim, or Buddhist is eternally worthless. Having a religious belief, or any belief for that matter, can only serve you in this life. People have used different beliefs to justify and accomplish all manner of ends throughout history.
For many, their faith is the lens through which they view the world. Viewing the world through a relationship with Christ has provided me with the answers to the questions I had.
1.3.2. What do you say to the possibility that belief became a desired trait in societies, thus became evolutionary selected in?... but it hasn't been around for enough time to clear out all the non-believing individuals... and is a trait now in decline... To this possibility I say …wait for it…meh!
Seriously, I had a very long answer drafted but this seemed much more fun and I wanted to bring a little snark myself. That’s right you heathens (term of endearment!!!), Christians can be snarky too!
2. Are you aware of the Essenes? Yes.
2.1. What do you say of the possibility that the historical Jesus was an Essene? I would say he exhibited some of the same beliefs that are associated with the third major denomination of Judaism at the time.
2.2. Why, would you say, are the Essenes never mentioned in the bible? They were located in the proverbial "road to Damascus", after all... I have asked the same question. The Sadducees and Pharisees made up the Sanhedrin. It appears the Essenes were not represented within their ranks.
3. Why the KJV? Why not something better, like the Vulgate? If you want to go sola scriptura, you should go for the purest, closest to the original possible text.... at least, that's what I would go for. I'm not very fond of the result of the broken telephone game (chinese whispers?). I also read the Holman Christian Standard Bible or HCSB. However I do like the prose and flow of the KJV. I only wish I could read the original texts. I would struggle with attempting to translate the words and I am too old to learn a new language.
I hope this was insightful. I wish I had the recall and command of the scriptures as many here at the AF enjoy. The irony that many atheists possess a much deeper working knowledge of Gods revelation to us is not lost on me. I thoroughly enjoyed some homework and getting into the scriptures for myself.
Good day to you sir and thank you again!
