Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: January 6, 2025, 6:36 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Can't prove the supernatural God
#89
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God
(May 26, 2016 at 11:14 am)Mister Agenda Wrote: You might consider that Paul never encountered any 'historical Jesus', so nothing he wrote (discounting that some of 'his' letters were likely not written by him) counts as an eyewitness testimony concerning Jesus; and the identity of the Gospel authors is unknown (but almost certainly not the disciples Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John), so it is difficult to claim they are reliable. Also, Matthew, Luke, and John seem to be largely copied from Mark, with additional miracles that grow the farther in time from the supposed events the books were written.

I lean about 51% toward there having actually been a Yeshua who came to a bad end at the hands of the Romans for sedition whose sayings were collected and referred to by Mark, but almost nothing about him in the Bible can be considered reliable using normal historical methodology to determine such.

If you want to know more, there are books on the topic.

As I have pointed out, Paul gives evidence of the belief being held by the early church (and how widespread it had become in 20 years) within the same generation as Jesus. Matthew, Mark, and John writers are probably editors who followed the disciple the book was named for. Luke was a well-educated man who was sent to find out what happened and wrote Luke and Acts. They all had differing audiences so you get some things emphasized as important to the audience. There is evidence that any writings were copied and disseminated to the various pockets of Christianity. It is easy to see why one editor of a gospel would have in his library any earlier writings. That does not mean that "his" apostle didn't remember some things the same and other things differently. There is no contradictions on main theological points.

I am curious why you do not think that Jesus' life (notice I do not say resurrection) is not the most attested series of events in ancient history. What event has more sources and more evidence that the people of that day believed at least the basic facts of Jesus?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Can't prove the supernatural God - by maestroanth - May 15, 2016 at 7:36 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 15, 2016 at 7:42 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 15, 2016 at 7:57 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 21, 2016 at 3:18 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 21, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 22, 2016 at 7:58 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 23, 2016 at 2:09 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 23, 2016 at 6:22 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 24, 2016 at 8:43 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 24, 2016 at 10:32 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 24, 2016 at 1:04 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Angrboda - May 24, 2016 at 1:34 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 8:33 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 6:53 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 25, 2016 at 8:28 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 25, 2016 at 10:23 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 7:03 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 26, 2016 at 11:34 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 1:34 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 31, 2016 at 11:43 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 11:07 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - June 1, 2016 at 11:53 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 29, 2016 at 2:45 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 29, 2016 at 2:49 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 29, 2016 at 3:00 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 29, 2016 at 3:05 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 8:57 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 1:01 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 8:32 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 25, 2016 at 8:42 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 9:44 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 25, 2016 at 9:50 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 10:23 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 25, 2016 at 10:31 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 11:05 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 25, 2016 at 11:23 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 31, 2016 at 4:38 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 9:40 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 25, 2016 at 11:56 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 12:58 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 26, 2016 at 11:14 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 1:25 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 31, 2016 at 11:38 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 30, 2016 at 6:29 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 30, 2016 at 6:43 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 31, 2016 at 12:02 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 30, 2016 at 11:39 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 30, 2016 at 6:15 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 30, 2016 at 6:47 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 30, 2016 at 7:24 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by carusmm - May 30, 2016 at 9:41 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 9:05 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2016 at 4:26 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 8:35 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 30, 2016 at 7:51 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2016 at 4:38 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 10:25 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 30, 2016 at 10:11 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ravenshire - May 22, 2016 at 2:30 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SilverFrog - June 1, 2016 at 5:40 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 1, 2016 at 10:53 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SilverFrog - June 4, 2016 at 11:38 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Silver - May 21, 2016 at 3:22 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 21, 2016 at 3:39 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 21, 2016 at 4:19 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by dyresand - May 21, 2016 at 9:51 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Brian37 - May 21, 2016 at 3:46 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 22, 2016 at 2:25 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 22, 2016 at 7:48 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 23, 2016 at 3:09 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 23, 2016 at 1:44 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 23, 2016 at 6:09 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Angrboda - May 24, 2016 at 8:17 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 24, 2016 at 9:13 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 24, 2016 at 10:53 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Angrboda - May 24, 2016 at 11:37 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 24, 2016 at 3:02 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 5:42 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 22, 2016 at 2:37 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 22, 2016 at 8:06 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Minimalist - May 22, 2016 at 2:39 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Cato - May 22, 2016 at 8:15 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 22, 2016 at 8:48 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by IATIA - May 22, 2016 at 8:19 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Minimalist - May 22, 2016 at 10:48 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 23, 2016 at 2:41 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 23, 2016 at 6:49 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 24, 2016 at 1:30 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 23, 2016 at 6:41 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Silver - May 24, 2016 at 1:32 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 24, 2016 at 5:11 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 24, 2016 at 5:18 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by ignoramus - May 24, 2016 at 9:11 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 6:37 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SofaKingHigh - May 25, 2016 at 8:26 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 25, 2016 at 10:16 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 10:44 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 25, 2016 at 11:48 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 25, 2016 at 10:11 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 25, 2016 at 1:10 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 6:29 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 30, 2016 at 12:34 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 25, 2016 at 9:11 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 25, 2016 at 1:09 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - May 26, 2016 at 11:16 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 1:42 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 26, 2016 at 4:28 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 8:11 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 26, 2016 at 3:12 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 27, 2016 at 6:07 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 29, 2016 at 3:15 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 30, 2016 at 1:27 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Esquilax - May 30, 2016 at 3:18 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 30, 2016 at 6:35 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by carusmm - May 29, 2016 at 5:14 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Silver - May 31, 2016 at 4:28 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 31, 2016 at 5:32 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 31, 2016 at 5:47 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 6:23 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 31, 2016 at 11:13 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 12:15 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 2:06 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 31, 2016 at 1:46 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 2:17 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - May 31, 2016 at 2:40 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 3:21 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 4:35 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 6:13 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - May 31, 2016 at 5:27 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - May 31, 2016 at 6:25 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - May 31, 2016 at 10:53 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 12:05 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 1, 2016 at 2:36 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by IATIA - June 1, 2016 at 1:07 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 3:36 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 1, 2016 at 3:48 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 5:03 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 5:31 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 6:09 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 8:06 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 1, 2016 at 1:09 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Crossless1 - June 1, 2016 at 1:12 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Esquilax - June 1, 2016 at 2:05 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - June 2, 2016 at 4:38 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by bennyboy - June 1, 2016 at 8:06 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by ignoramus - June 1, 2016 at 8:37 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 1, 2016 at 1:33 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 1, 2016 at 9:41 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Esquilax - June 2, 2016 at 12:04 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 2, 2016 at 7:05 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Esquilax - June 3, 2016 at 12:45 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 3:40 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 3:49 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 4:14 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by IATIA - June 3, 2016 at 5:33 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 5:41 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 2, 2016 at 1:50 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 2, 2016 at 8:58 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Silver - June 2, 2016 at 1:51 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 2, 2016 at 1:59 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 2, 2016 at 11:03 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Silver - June 2, 2016 at 2:03 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 2, 2016 at 4:55 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 2, 2016 at 5:38 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - June 2, 2016 at 6:30 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 2, 2016 at 12:29 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - June 2, 2016 at 2:13 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 2, 2016 at 4:42 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Pat Mustard - June 2, 2016 at 2:21 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Whateverist - June 2, 2016 at 11:07 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 2, 2016 at 12:30 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 2, 2016 at 12:32 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 2, 2016 at 3:38 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 2, 2016 at 4:04 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 2, 2016 at 4:46 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 11:05 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - June 3, 2016 at 11:40 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Whateverist - June 3, 2016 at 11:50 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 2, 2016 at 4:51 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 11:19 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 11:20 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Whateverist - June 3, 2016 at 11:24 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 12:32 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 12:50 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 1:12 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 4:05 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 4:14 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Whateverist - June 3, 2016 at 4:23 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 3, 2016 at 5:45 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 6:05 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 4, 2016 at 2:43 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 4, 2016 at 3:19 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Ignorant - June 4, 2016 at 3:56 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 11:26 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 12:09 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - June 3, 2016 at 12:19 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 12:37 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Esquilax - June 3, 2016 at 12:47 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 11:52 am
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Mister Agenda - June 3, 2016 at 12:12 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 12:18 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 12:46 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 12:57 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 1:04 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by Esquilax - June 3, 2016 at 1:07 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 3:53 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 4:13 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by SteveII - June 3, 2016 at 4:21 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by madog - June 3, 2016 at 4:23 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 3, 2016 at 4:32 pm
RE: Can't prove the supernatural God - by robvalue - June 4, 2016 at 4:00 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Exclamation Supernatural and Atheism Eclectic 322 40965 January 3, 2023 at 7:28 pm
Last Post: HappySkeptic
Question How do you prove to everybody including yourself you're an atheist? Walter99 48 7109 March 23, 2021 at 2:57 pm
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Supernatural Evidence? Soldat Du Christ 266 35899 November 13, 2016 at 10:44 am
Last Post: chimp3
  How to respond to "prove God doesn't exist" Help? dragonman73 11 3472 April 8, 2016 at 4:12 am
Last Post: robvalue
  "Prove to me god doesn't exist" TanithDaUnicorn 67 11981 March 6, 2016 at 5:02 pm
Last Post: Angrboda
  A Challenge to You All: Prove I'm not God FebruaryOfReason 40 7261 February 21, 2016 at 1:59 pm
Last Post: FebruaryOfReason
  Do Supernatural Horror Movies Scare You? PhilosophicalZebra 24 5899 July 10, 2015 at 12:11 pm
Last Post: KUSA
  Natural explanations to former supernatural ideas Won2blv 12 3986 May 17, 2015 at 12:13 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Hey Gnostic Atheist - prove your point answer-is-42 26 7941 September 18, 2014 at 8:23 am
Last Post: Tonus
  Hey Anti-Theists! Prove Your Claim Neo-Scholastic 85 16292 August 20, 2014 at 4:20 pm
Last Post: ComradeMeow



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)