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The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work
RE: The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work
(May 12, 2016 at 2:13 am)Redbeard The Pink Wrote: Those passages are talking about free men. Foreign residents and foreign slaves were not the same thing, nor did they hold the same place in society. Again, you've picked a passage that does not talk about slavery to try to refute my interpretation of a passage that definitely does talk about slavery. You're basically out of context on this entire argument. None of the passages you've pulled are actually talking about slavery specifically; they've mentioned kidnapping, oppression, hospitality, etc. but not slavery. The passages I'm quoting say in plain language what your god thinks of slavery and how he commands Jews to conduct their ownership of slaves.
As I looked further into the text there is a difference between the Jewish slave and the Foreign slave and that is that the Jew must be released at Jubilee. The Foreign slave could serve for their life if his master choose. Still the laws of a slave still applied to all slaves like, if he was grievously injured, or ran away he would be free from his servitude.
 
1 Tim 1:9-10 [url=http://biblehub.com/greek/1492.htm][/url]9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine,
 
We see here that the law about slavery was given to the Israelites because they needed to be restrained and have a consequence for behaving in a manner that was evil. Otherwise if God were so evil he would not have given a law at all and would have explicitly stated that you can oppress anyone anyway you choose. Instead what we see is Him always giving boundaries and stipulations. Also God giving a law doesn't mean that He condones the act. In Matthew Jesus is approached by the religious rulers and asked whether divorce is lawful for any cause. He quotes from genesis saying that marriage was designed for life. They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. (Matt 19 ESV). So this law is similar to the laws about slavery. Just like the law for divorce was for the benefit of the woman (so that she could remarry without being seen as an adulterer) the slave would not be oppressed or treated harshly. They would be treated as a person and have the possibility of gaining land and having a wife and family. 

Quote:Sooo...I'm noticing a pattern here...when I say that I'm gonna quote a passage that glorifies slavery, the passage I select tends to contain words like "slave," "enslave," and "slavery," whereas yours do not. You seem to be taking passages that you think refer to various aspects of slavery (kidnapping, bondage, selling people, etc.) but that in context do not actually pertain to slavery at all.
You are correct not all of my replies to you are about slaves but the law does not see slaves as less than human. so when I quoted from other passages I was working under this assumption. I have also quoted from Isaiah 58:67 were it spoke of breaking the bonds of oppression. Oppression is in a similar contest as what we saw slavery to be in the American south. This being a part of the Jewish scripture and God calling for the end of oppression shows that God is not in favor of harsh treatment of anyone.

 
Psalm 9:9 (ESV)
9 The Lord is a stronghold for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble.
 
Psalm 147 5:Blessed is he whose help is the God of Jacob,  whose hope is in the Lord his God, 6 who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who keeps faith forever; 7  who executes justice for the oppressed, who gives food to the hungry.
The Lord sets the prisoners free; 8 the Lord opens the eyes of the blind. The Lord lifts up those who are bowed down; the Lord loves the righteous. 9 The Lord watches over the sojourners; he upholds the widow and the fatherless, but the way of the wicked he brings to ruin.
 
Unlike the picture you hold of God, He is a God that fights against oppression and calls His people to do the same. God is for the weak and the down trodden and oppressed. This is not just for the type of  slavery we witness now and in the American south it is for all forms of oppression. He seeks to free the person from any physical and spiritual or mental oppression. If anyone puts their full trust in Him they will receive full restoration. So just because it doesn't explicitly say slavery doesn't mean this does not give you a good view of what God is getting at. As a Christian there is no person that is allowed to be oppressed. In many of the social issues you see Christians fighting for someone's rights, like in abortion, human trafficking, adoption. People like Amy Carmichael in India risking her life to free the children from shrine prostitution. George Muller who by faith and prayer started an orphanage for the poor English children. That is only two examples. There are Christians willing to stand in front of abortion clinics and offer to adopt babies.
 
Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Quote:Not the kind of slavery we're talking about, and also...that never happened, either.
Are you speaking about the spiritual implication of the crucifixion or the Historicity of it?

 
Both apply. Jesus was betrayed or sold at the price of a slave. He did the work of a slave by washing the feet of his disciples. Isaiah 53:7 (ESV) 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent, so he opened not his mouth. Not only is God for the oppressed but He also suffered under man's oppression. He became oppressed and was sold for the price of a slave in order to set other free from their captivity. He isn't just a silent on looker but he came down and became afflicted for our sake. As for the case of the slaves in America now and then He was abused and mistreated. He knows what it is like to be sold. As God, Jesus didn't stand far off but became a man and suffered with us in order that we may receive true freedom

Quote:Evidence?
As for the evidence of man's rejection of God making us blind to your evil ti states that Jesus said in the book of John if you love me you will obey my commands (john 14:15)
Well you don't think that porn is wrong but I will talk more about that later in another post. (Don't look at a woman in lust)
Killing babies in the womb is fine because they aren't humans but they have the DNA of humans and are alive. The DNA of a baby isn't the exact same DNA as the mother. (Do not murder ex 20:13)
A woman (who was not pregnant, but at an abortion rights rally) said that "being forced to have a baby is equal to being enslaved". (women should love their husband and children Titus 2:4)
When Darwin's theory of evolution was gaining some fan fair people, including him, said that women were inferior to men and that the "negro" was also an inferior race. (God made man and woman in his image Gen 1:27)
Open the bathrooms to anyone who identifies as that sex, which has opened the door to people being victimized. Some girls were already victimized in Washington State when a man walked into their locker room and just stood there. He told them they could not make his leave. (don't lie, don't lust after women, defend the defenseless Ps 82:83)
 The applauding of the transgender movement is no a helping people dealing with body dysmorphic disorder. (don't lie Lev 19:11) Dr. Paul Mchugh former John Hopkins psychiatrist in chief , the hospital that started the transgender surgeries, discontinued it because they found that this was not the solution.
 
Bruce Jenner being named woman of the year. Excuse Me! I have been a woman all of my life bore three children. Take care of them run my own business and this man changes his sex and gets to trump my natural womanhood to become woman of the year?
What about all those natural born women who are making great sacrifices and doing amazing things in the world (that far outstrip my accomplishments)? 
So what then, men can continue to dominate our society and now change their sex to dominate womanhood as well? (lies)
 
Quote:Your god doesn't see anything wrong with mass genocide and forced marriages, so you really don't have the moral high ground here, even if abortion were evil (which it isn't).

From your standpoint point either the Bible is a fabrication therefore God is not genocidal. Or He is genocidal, therefore He must exist. 

Then if he does exist, He owns every human being because He made them and determines their life span. He controls History. He is the one that gives purpose and meaning and if He chooses to remove them by war or sickness it is for His purposes, whether He makes us privy to them or not. When He wipes out people it is never without warning or a grace period.
 
Also a regulation on an act is not the same as an endorsement of the act. As I spoke about above God regulates certain behavior for the person who is in the weaker position. 
"The trustworthiness of God’s behavior in His world is the foundation of all scientific truth." A.W. Tover "Knowledge of the Holy"
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Messages In This Thread
RE: The Reasons why "Just Following Jesus" Doesn't work - by Rekeisha - May 27, 2016 at 4:25 pm

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