(June 2, 2016 at 2:55 am)Thena323 Wrote:Your right to a degree, Salvation is indeed a process through which we are saved, but it has nothing to do with us nor our works good or bad. Salvation was a work of Christ, and it is upto Christ alone to determine whether or not we are saved. That officially does not happen till our judgement.(June 1, 2016 at 11:53 am)Drich Wrote: Then put it back.. (your take away) Into context. (see above)
We're talking about two different things here.
The words 'salvation' and 'saved' aren't always interchangeable, Drich. Salvation also has it's own stand-alone definition that makes more sense within a Biblical context as the way, means, path or process in which to be saved; Not the actual act of being saved itself.
"Salvation" occurs as a result of accepting the atonement of Christ.
By accepting Christ's atonement, one is (generally) regarded as worthy of being in God's presence, and thus "saved" from permanent separation from Him in the end.
Unless there's some reason to believe that your God would just start evicting individuals out of heaven, once they've already been accepted into his kingdom after final judgement, then sure; Once saved, always saved makes sense. But, if one no longer possesses the faith or belief required to accept atonement, then the way in is clearly gone; Salvation go bye-bye.
Anyhow, this specific line of discussion seems to involve little more than quibbling over semantics, in my opinion.
If you look at the bible we can only accept the salvation offered, no where in scripture does it say we are saved at that moment. Now I'm not saying certain sects do not teach this, I know they do and i came out of one of them. But never the less it is not a biblical principle.
That is why What Christ says in Mat 7 about the final day "21 “Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter God’s kingdom. The only people who will enter are those who do what my Father in heaven wants. 22 On that last Day many will call me Lord. They will say, ‘Lord, Lord, by the power of your name we spoke for God. And by your name we forced out demons and did many miracles.’ 23 Then I will tell those people clearly, ‘Get away from me, you people who do wrong. I never knew you.’
Look at the list of things these people who cry out "lord, lord" do. These acts are greater than anything people in the church can now do. This is Apostle level acts. So from a religious stand point these 'doers of wrong' are kings among the religious. So clearly in their minds they are "Saved." Can you read the shock in their words? look at how the parade their 'works' infront of Christ. Obviously these acts qualified them as 'christian' before other men, but they have no hold on Christ. How is that possible if as the bible says (Heb 6) Point blank we can not loose our salvation, now couple that with the parable of the types of soil Jesus taught, then it becomes more clear that 'salvation/being saved' is not something that we do or even happens in this life, because in the parable of the soils it is not till the harvest (which is described as the final resurrection and judgement) that the 'good fertile soil' is identified because it yielded a fruitful crop. Meaning we don't know who is saved till it is all said and done.
Again, nothing in the bible tells us we are saved the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our savior, that is a religious teaching and one more difference between the God of the bible, and the god you created that you tested and found to be false.
Outside of that I do believe we are going to the same place without arguments. that is the sum total of our life will be evaluated and can be found wanting despite any proclamations, ceremonies or traditional observance we may partake in. God is not a fool nor will He be duped into yielding to a loop hole (death bed confession type of thing) you may have think you found.
Because again only Christ can Save us, offer us salvation, Or even identify us as Christians. It has nothing to do with what we think of our selves.