Losty- In my experience they aren't much better at all. Their scores are better, but they also serve far fewer disadvantaged kids than public schools (proportionally). I'm not saying Private Schools can't be excellent, just to be clear. I just don't think they're necessarily better. Some of the smartest people I've known (as a student, and a teacher) attended public school, and I don't think they'd have fared better at a private school.
It's not a 'cop-out' at all. It's easy to place the blame on teachers for everything. But there's many factors to academic success. I make an effort to contact the parents of every student I have that is struggling. I find that most of them can't be reached at work or at home. I don't know how many voice messages I've left, and emails I've sent for parents asking them to contact me and let me know when they'd be available for a meeting. By contrast, when parents are involved I find that students tend to do better. More of them reach their full potential, certainly. Having a parents assistance in pushing a kid goes a long way.
I always find it interesting that most people focus on 'firing bad teachers' rather than on 'attracting and retaining good teachers'. Because doing one, without doing the other does you no good. You just get new bad teachers. Of course how hard it is to actually fire a teacher (as well as the cost of doing so) varies by state, and locality. In some places it's simply too expensive (Much cheaper to give them good reviews, and let another school deal with them when they finally decide to leave). In other places the rules are too stringent. But again it varies by location. Now misbehaving teachers often DO get fired. It happens quite often, so it's obviously not THAT difficult. Of course again, you have administrators who would rather get the teachers to leave of their own volition rather than actually firing them. Which just transfers the problem from one area to another. Part of the problem with firing bad teachers is identifying what a bad teacher is, and finding those teachers. Some people think it should be as simple as tying their performance to test results. I'd disagree with such a approach strongly (despite the fact that my students have tested quite well in my eight years of teaching). I find it rather simplistic, and I don't think it would actually accomplish much more than raising the rates of cheating. It'd be wonderful if we could just weed out the truly 'bad teachers'. Trust me, no teacher wants bad teachers at their school--if only because it makes their job harder. (When a student doesn't understand a concept they should have learned already, it makes teaching them the new stuff that relies on that concept much harder)
As for the difficulties in expelling a student--I should note that I'm simply referring to how easy it is for a private school to expel a student for behavioral issues. I don't think expulsion should be easier. Education needs to be available to everyone. Including, and perhaps most of all, the 'trouble makers'. Of course much like disadvantaged students, they also tend not to do as well in school for a number of reasons. Often including issues at home.
Okay, I misread you. I'm sorry, I thought you were saying nationwide the public school system was poor--not that the specific district was ranked lowly nationwide. I apologize for the misunderstanding--totally my fault. I'm used to people talking about the national school system being poor, rather than a specific region being ranked poorly.
(June 7, 2016 at 8:36 pm)Cato Wrote: Cecelia,
I was educated in public schools, as were my children. By and large I would agree with your quality assessment, even though I despise the 'parental involvement' cop out. Perhaps fodder for a later discussion.
What you really said that I take issue with is the mention of how difficult expulsion is in public schools. The reason this bothers me is the irony when I consider how difficult it is to get rid of misbehaving teachers, let alone those that are underperforming.
It's not a 'cop-out' at all. It's easy to place the blame on teachers for everything. But there's many factors to academic success. I make an effort to contact the parents of every student I have that is struggling. I find that most of them can't be reached at work or at home. I don't know how many voice messages I've left, and emails I've sent for parents asking them to contact me and let me know when they'd be available for a meeting. By contrast, when parents are involved I find that students tend to do better. More of them reach their full potential, certainly. Having a parents assistance in pushing a kid goes a long way.
I always find it interesting that most people focus on 'firing bad teachers' rather than on 'attracting and retaining good teachers'. Because doing one, without doing the other does you no good. You just get new bad teachers. Of course how hard it is to actually fire a teacher (as well as the cost of doing so) varies by state, and locality. In some places it's simply too expensive (Much cheaper to give them good reviews, and let another school deal with them when they finally decide to leave). In other places the rules are too stringent. But again it varies by location. Now misbehaving teachers often DO get fired. It happens quite often, so it's obviously not THAT difficult. Of course again, you have administrators who would rather get the teachers to leave of their own volition rather than actually firing them. Which just transfers the problem from one area to another. Part of the problem with firing bad teachers is identifying what a bad teacher is, and finding those teachers. Some people think it should be as simple as tying their performance to test results. I'd disagree with such a approach strongly (despite the fact that my students have tested quite well in my eight years of teaching). I find it rather simplistic, and I don't think it would actually accomplish much more than raising the rates of cheating. It'd be wonderful if we could just weed out the truly 'bad teachers'. Trust me, no teacher wants bad teachers at their school--if only because it makes their job harder. (When a student doesn't understand a concept they should have learned already, it makes teaching them the new stuff that relies on that concept much harder)
As for the difficulties in expelling a student--I should note that I'm simply referring to how easy it is for a private school to expel a student for behavioral issues. I don't think expulsion should be easier. Education needs to be available to everyone. Including, and perhaps most of all, the 'trouble makers'. Of course much like disadvantaged students, they also tend not to do as well in school for a number of reasons. Often including issues at home.
(June 7, 2016 at 10:05 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Again, I am not making a broad, sweeping statement about the nation's school systems. I am talking about a specific district/region that I have inside information on.
Okay, I misread you. I'm sorry, I thought you were saying nationwide the public school system was poor--not that the specific district was ranked lowly nationwide. I apologize for the misunderstanding--totally my fault. I'm used to people talking about the national school system being poor, rather than a specific region being ranked poorly.
The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to woman is, to the last degree, contemptuous and degrading. - Elizabeth Cady Stanton
