Do Christians worship a suicide victim?

[Ignorant]

1) ... 2) you are just playing games here I said you use man made evidence to this statement " I don't think it helps to limit God's activity in this world ONLY to the miraculous and spectacular" I wasn't complaining about you using man made evidence for "God" but his activity on earth ... I am finished with this issue .... it is going no where   [1]

3) The communication wasn't/isn't clear .... [2] if you think the confusion about the "Jesus" character is clear and it was what  he wanted, then what a shitty guy .... [3]

If the confusion wasn't of his doing but because of man, we only have what has been passed down .... how do you know that the message received was what he intended to be passed down .... His message might have been don't fuck with the jews or they'll nail you to a cross .... [4]

4)  consistent things about the Christian message which HAVE been communicated. And your evidence for that is stories passed down and written, edited, interpreted, etc, etc for 2000 years from stone-age man    [5]

1) Fair enough

2) The core message and aspects of that message are clear. The implications drawn from that core is less clear.

3) I don't think that.

4) First, whatever I "know" about this original message is through faith in the message-as-transmitted-by-a-particular-community. I readily admit this knowledge to be faith, not a conclusion of syllogism. Whether I am Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, Lutheran, etc., I believe in the message of Jesus as it is mediated through a particular historical community. As a Catholic, I believe "that the message received was what he intended to be passed down" because of the historical line of apostolic succession present in the hierarchy of the church, as well as the historical continuity of today's Catholic faithful with the ancient Christians of the 1st century. In addition to that historical continuity of the community itself, I find that there is also the historical continuity of the message itself, traceable from the accounts of Christians in the New Testament, to the written accounts of Christians in the following centuries, through to the Councils of those centuries, all the way to today's teachings. Developments occurred over 2000 years of reasoned reflection and making theological connections based on various philosophical principles. I know it's Christ's message because of faith. While historical evidence does not definitively demonstrate that scientifically, I also find that the Catholic teaching is the most [historically] defensible one historically [as the same teaching of Christ].

5) No. My evidence of this statement is that many atheist individuals (i.e. people who lack faith) on an atheist internet forum can accurately articulate many of the essential aspects of Christ's message, even if they reject the sense of the whole. If an atheist can articulate and criticize Christ's message, somehow they received a message to criticize.