RE: Evidence for Jesus Christ?
May 1, 2011 at 12:10 pm
(This post was last modified: May 1, 2011 at 12:15 pm by DeistPaladin.)
(May 1, 2011 at 7:06 am)Napoleon666 Wrote: My question is this, what evidence can you provide me with, OTHER than the bible, that jesus existed?
The only historical evidence that the Gospels might be based on the life of a real wandering rabbi is found in the Annals of Tacitus, and even this doesn't mention Jesus by name.
Tacitus writes about the Christians, explaining that there name is derived from "Christus" (which, in Latin, means "the anointed one") and explains that this founder was crucified by Pilate.
Quote:Their founder, one Christus, had been put to death by the procurator, Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius.
That's it. Full stop. This is all you can find. It's cursory, late (early 2nd century) and an oblique reference. Oh, and Pilate was a "prefect", not a "procurator", but apologists accuse me of picking nits if I mention that. For all we know, Tacitus could have been passing on what the Christians told him.
Tacitus makes no mention of a resurrection or this Christus being seen by his followers at a later time, a point which should have piqued the interest of a Roman noble. A condemned criminal hanging out with his followers later? And Tactitus had a confirmed fascination with mythical beings and supernatural events.
As for Josephus, I'm astonished that any Christian ever mentions the TF. Even sleazy apologists are forced to admit that there was tampering by Christian scribes. Just read the whole paragraph and you can easily imagine a delivery by a manic pentecostal preacher:
Quote:Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Wow, an orthodox Jew calling Jesus "the Christ" or "the messiah"? Confirming he was a miracle worker? Fulfilled the prophecies? Was resurrected? Seriously? Here we have an orthodox Jew who preaches nearly all the points of Christian theology in rapid fire succession in one short paragraph? This is the stuff of Christian propaganda, from the pen of an unbeliever?
This is why apologists like Strobel or McDowell begin to fidget and admit, "um, there do seem to be a few interpolations" and try to argue for "partial authenticity". I'm still waiting for any evidence that the paragraph is "partially authentic" but the Christians do have friends in the "evidence" fabrication industry so it may come in my lifetime.
There is another reference in Josephus, the so-called "Jamesian reference". Unfortunately for the Christians, it refers to Jesus Bar Damneus. Jesus was a common name back then.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist