Evidence for Jesus Christ?

[reverendjeremiah]

@Rev- in regards to forgiveness, I thought I was clear on that.

You were?

It is offered freely.

Forgiveness is not an offer. Forgiveness is MY gift to YOU regardless of wether you want it or not. Why cant you understand that?

If I offer you free food, room and board would you take it?

Will I wake up in a tub of ice missing a kidney with the words "Call a doctor" written on the wall in my own blood?

Would you expect me to bring it to you or would you come to me to claim it?

I thought we were talking about forgiveness? Why are we talking about room and board now?

That's a condition, acceptance, by definition.

That isnt forgiveness. That is blackmail. I have a torture chamber in the basement of my house, and if you dont accept my forgiveness by following this list of rules that also include worshipping me, then I will torture you. No. You will torture yourself because of your poor choice. I am blameless for this.

Covenants require 2 parties, and acceptance is a default assumption, therefore there isn't such a thing as unconditional in this sense.

Forgiveness does NOT require acceptance. Forgiveness is a ONE WAY STREET. Forgiveness is a GIFT from the one who is upset with you REGARDLESS of your acceptance, or regardless of wether you even know about it.

Stop trying to redefine "forgiveness" into "blackmail":
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Forgiveness:
1. act of forgiving; state of being forgiven.
2. disposition or willingness to forgive.
Forgiving:
1. to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve.
2. to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.).
3. to grant pardon to (a person).
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Blackmail:
1. any payment extorted by intimidation, as by threats of injurious revelations or accusations.
2. the extortion of such payment: He confessed rather than suffer the dishonor of blackmail.
3. a tribute formerly exacted in the north of England and in Scotland by freebooting chiefs for protection from pillage.
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Now show me ANYWHERE in the definition of forgiveness that the other party has to be obligated for ANYTHING.

Stipulations there are none other than acceptance.

..and that LONG list of things you have to follow in the bible. Oh yeah, and you have to believe in and worship Jesus.

Repentance necessarily follows true acceptance and is an outward sign for humanity, but not a requirement.

Oh, I get it....

By grace alone we are saved, from this torment and eventual annihilation.

Fine. Then I ask Jesus Christ to forgive me. I accept his forgiveness.