(May 4, 2011 at 12:07 pm)RDK Wrote: Are any of you under the opinion that Jesus came to this world to condemn us? John 3-17, For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
There is a key point that Jesus tried to teach concerning condemnation. Essentially, guilt is the source of the problem to begin with. If we could live our lives without ever doing something contrary to that which we know is true, we would never be guilty. But since everyone has done something, or lots o somethings, we are guilty of actions with which we have no ability to remove. The hell that has been figuratively described as a place of torture, thirst, fire and brimstone, etc. is a physical way to demonsrate something which is truly dealing with the issues of our conscience. We created the pain of guilt by doing those things which we knew that we should not have done. Jesus does not cast you into a place of misery. You are there already! You are not guilty because Jesus wants to watch you fry. You are in misery because you have realized that the one you have hurt the most is the one who loves you the most, the one who said I forgive you for what you did. Jesus saved us from the condemnation of our own guilt. Think about this. How fair would it be for God to throw someone in an oven? Would that make you learn to love God more? Of course it would not. The idea of that can only make you angry at God. We are given choices to make about our course in this world. We are condemned by our conscience when presented by the facts about the real love that God always had for us. Jesus was called saviour because he came to tell us that God loved us anyway. God understands our shame, and He wants us to know that He still loves us. That has been the forgiveness message all along. The law is what has condemned man. If you have never been told that it is wrong to murder someone, then you would never be condemned by doing that. But, if you are told that it is wrong to kill, then you are condemned already at that moment. The guilt has been thoroughly established immediately. For those who do not yet feel any remorse, that will happen when God is finally revealed to you at your death. You wil then realize that the harm you did to others really was right in front of the one who loved you. You hurt your own brothers and sisters, and you disappointed the one who loved you the most.
If God were the one to cast you away, how could he come back to you later and say I love you. That one would be a liar.
Guilt is relative. Levels of guilt can change based on your perspective of what you did and its effects.
I need no man, prophet, or god to die for my "sins". If I think I'm going to regret what I did, I don't fucking do it. No one needs to be my whipping boy. That's called forethought and responsibility.
I also don't need a "law" to tell me not to commit certain "sins" - I have natural compassion and empathy for my fellow human beings.
I'm really sick of these circular and ridiculous arguments.
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