Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 12, 2024, 1:03 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
What God is to the Universe is what your mind is to your body
RE: What God is to the Universe is what your mind is to your body
(August 18, 2016 at 6:54 pm)bennyboy Wrote: I don't think you can distinguish between "seems" and "fits into my world view."  Let's start with how it seems there's an objective universe, how it seems some objects have mind as I do, how it seems that people experience as I do.  But why does it seem that way?  If I poke a person's brain with an electrode, he/she might say something like, "Hmmmmm, I smell smoke."  This is our entire criteria for determining that we are studying a system with mind: that it makes a smiley face when we think it should smile, and a pouty face when we think it should be sad.
-as much as I'd like -better- criteria...we simply don't have it...and the cosmos has no obligation to satisfy either of us. If you're searching for sound propositions with which to make inferences...you will invariably be forced to defer to this body of knowledge, as incomplete and unsatisfying as it may be, because of it's existence and sufficience...even if not, necessarily, it's truth.  We attempt to explain the unknown by reference to the known.  What we know is, itself, provisional.

Quote:That's fine, if you are trying to determine if something is acceptably human enough to go bowling with.  It's does not serve as very good evidence for what physical systems do/do not have anything like a mind.
It is the -only- evidence.....and I don't know what metrics you;re using to determine that it isn't good.  It's evident..firstly, falsifiable, and matches our predictions and expectations.  It sounds like pretty damned good evidence......and it produces results.  So..either we're very, very lucky...or we're on to something.

Quote:Stop saying I call neurology "brainwaving."  I do not.  Neurology is not the science of establishing the details of psychogony, and does not / cannot say at what level of organization the elements of mind supervene.  I've already said that neuropsychology is very useful, and tells us a lot about how the brain is involved in our qualitative experiences.

What it does NOT do is say where mind comes from, why there is such a thing, why it supervenes somewhere/somehow in the brain.  If I'm wrong about that, then go ahead to imright.com, and provide links or studies in which neuropsychologists attempt to answer philosophical questions using science.  Otherwise, you are not only brainwaving but appealing to the authority of scientists whose studies don't address the issues of mind in the way you are pretending they do.

You talk about things seeming a certain way, about "best evidence" etc. etc.  Fine.  Explain why they seem that way.  Produce your evidence.

See, right now, I'm agnostic.  I consider IIT a perfectly valid theory, and panpsychism a perfectly valid theory, and I see the merits in both physical monism, idealistic monism, and even pluralism.  But you are skewed toward a particular view of psychogony, and I do not think your evidence for that view is sufficient.
Yes, you do, and contending that you do not is beneath you.  Everytime I (or anyone else) reference something about psychogeny that nuerology helped us to discover...you go on about how brainwaving isn't sufficient (and frankly..you don;t even need any prodding..you'll launch into it of your own accord).  A psychogeny sans nuerology is, itself, an empty set within the context of our current understanding of mind, and what evidence is available.  Mind comes from...wait for it.....-the brain-.  I'm not going to humor your request that I produce evidence of that, you're aware of it...you must be, to consider it unsatisfying to begin with.

Now try and resist the urge to say I'm brainwaving.  Wink

(August 18, 2016 at 8:18 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:
(August 18, 2016 at 3:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Interaction.  There must be some way to be conscious -of- something....for there to be consciousness in the first place.  The term, otherwise, has no meaning.

How is that interaction conveyed?
The properties of matter, in those instances in which we are capable of demonstration.  Chemical reactivity, electrical conductiveness, mechanical resistence...in our case, specifically.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: What God is to the Universe is what your mind is to your body - by The Grand Nudger - August 19, 2016 at 7:33 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Greek philosophers always knew about the causeless universe Interaktive 10 1391 September 25, 2022 at 2:28 pm
Last Post: Anomalocaris
  Understanding the rudiment has much to give helps free that mind for further work. highdimensionman 16 1216 May 24, 2022 at 6:31 am
Last Post: highdimensionman
  How to change a mind Aroura 0 301 July 30, 2018 at 8:13 am
Last Post: Aroura
  The Philosophy of Mind: Zombies, "radical emergence" and evidence of non-experiential Edwardo Piet 82 12603 April 29, 2018 at 1:57 am
Last Post: bennyboy
Video Do we live in a universe where theism is likely true? (video) Angrboda 36 11578 May 28, 2017 at 1:53 am
Last Post: bennyboy
  Atheists, I want to know your explanation for these Out of body experiences? arda101 39 6204 January 29, 2017 at 2:57 am
Last Post: Magilla
  Mind from the Inside bennyboy 46 6358 September 18, 2016 at 10:18 pm
Last Post: Arkilogue
  If a supernatural intelligence did create the universe..... maestroanth 12 2124 April 20, 2016 at 8:36 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Mind is the brain? Mystic 301 32079 April 19, 2016 at 6:09 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Is personal identity really just mind? Pizza 47 6984 February 14, 2016 at 12:36 pm
Last Post: God of Mr. Hanky



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)