Is there objective Truth?

[Kernel Sohcahtoa]

I'm glad we are on the same page! That to me is important

IMO, I don’t think that we are, sir. From my observations, you are only starting to understand me; whereas, from your perspective, I'm pretty much understanding you.  

Unfortunetly, the christian position is that we do have the truth of life. We have a proper explanation for laws, logic, objective morality. The reason why we fell behind in education, and succesively led to the ignorant christian stigma, is because that's not what's important in our word view. Love god, love your neighbor. That's all that is demanded of us. If you love god you will do your best to live how he intended for us. And if you love others you would do your best to help them find grace in gods eyes. Serve them, love them, pray for them. This life is realy nothing, no amount of comfort, or misery, makes a difference in the end.

 
 
I respect the fact that your beliefs make you individually unique and give meaning to your life.  To feel that way about anything is quite spectacular and beautiful.  However, IMO, the conflict between non-secularism and secularism begins when one side starts asserting that their truth is ‘the truth’, rather than one of many alternative ways of arriving at truth.  Hence, this point has really been at the heart of my inquiries throughout our dialog.

Now erlier you say you think recognising universalism raises more questions than answers. I can't understand how one could see it that way, when there is an obvious answer. Even if you decline that answer, recognising objectivity is still a more sane, and cohisive than trying put the pieces together in a world without order IMO.

 
I appreciate your thoughts on this matter.  However, based on your post, I’m afraid that it may be trying to make sense of the non-theistic position via a theistic lens.  Naturally, this approach wouldn’t make much sense to the sense-maker and would appear to lack order and not be sane.  However, the beauty of a non-theistic position is that it is very sane, rational, orderly, and sensible to say that we don’t know what objective truth is, or that we lack an objective basis to account for our counting; the whole point is to discover what that basis is via our own imagination, creativity, and intelligence. In other words, we value the challenge of being able to explain the truth of the mystery, rather than accepting the assertions of various truth-seeking approaches.  Thus, there is great beauty in the idea that an ultimate conclusion can be reached via alternative, diverse approaches, not just one.  Furthermore, from a non-theistic lens, it is very rewarding and meaningful to begin with the smaller parts of the whole and discover how and why they work before we make any conclusions about the true meaning of the whole. 

In contrast, IMO, theism begins with making conclusions about the whole and then tries to understand how its individual parts operate: this approach is like trying to see how the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle fit together based on what the picture of the completed puzzle looks like on the outside cover of the puzzle box. Naturally, making sense of the puzzle in this way inevitably results in pieces being jammed together in a non-orderly fashion.  Thus, this approach has ultimately resulted in theists being incapable of finding a complete order in their objectivity, as they do not fully understand it.  Hence, IMO, theists cannot rationally account for the smaller elements and details of their asserted objectivity.
 
 

I think it's a losing battle. And i'm also starting to realise that these are irreconcilable differences...

 
Based on my understanding of religion, especially Christianity, it is based in peace and understanding.  In addition, I can see that your actions toward me uphold that particular mindset.  Therefore, I cannot see how an individual of peace and understanding can ultimately conclude that these differences are irreconcilable.  IMO, the problem may be that we are searching for an ‘either or’ (win-lose) solution rather than trying to find that rare and beautiful ‘both-gain’  (win-win) solution.

Based on my studies of Christianity, especially C.S Lewis, humility is one of the seven heavenly virtues; it is a virtue against the sin of pride (please correct me if I'm mistaken).  Likewise, humility is a big part of the non-theistic position.  Thus, this is one commonality we share.  In addition, many non-theists (view the peacemaking thread on this site) value peace and understanding too, so those are two more commonalities.  Furthermore, I bet if we really put our minds to it, we could probably find a bunch of commonalities that we share.  Hence, IMO, the differences mentioned in your post are irreconcilable only if we allow ourselves to think that way.   

As always, thanks for your time and attention.

P.S. I truly appreciate the constructive manner in which we are able to respectfully disagree with each other.