RE: If there is a creator, so what?
November 18, 2016 at 10:13 am
(This post was last modified: November 18, 2016 at 10:20 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 18, 2016 at 7:41 am)Ignorant Wrote: 1) Ohhhhhhhhh. =). Do you think the Pope possibly believes that an atheist doesn't believe he has a relationship with Christ (of course), even though a relationship with Christ actually exists? Perhaps your missing some nuance there.I'm not missing any nuance, you're seeking a way to be right despite the consequence. If I have a relationship with christ, as an atheist...why, again, should I care about your beliefs or your creator? As before...in seeking the gotcha you have made your beliefs, and even the truth of your beliefs, an irrelevance. So what;s the score now? I have a meaningless "relationship" no matter what with your evil god? How well is this going, in your estimation?
Quote:2) That's what you don't get. Christians believe (including the Pope) that the relationship with Christ is there whether you know its there or not. Anyone who is "saved", anyone who goes to heaven, goes there for one fundamental reason - Christ brought them there. Christians acknowledge the reality of the relationship, and try to work through it, which is actually Christ working through their work to bring them to heaven. Atheists don't acknowledge that reality, but often unknowingly work through it nonetheless, which is often Christ working through their work to bring them to heaven. <= This would make sense if you were able to meaningfully speak about a NATURAL relation between god's working and any work at all. But, you thought that unnecessary to discuss.They may believe that, but at least some understand that the belief is not required, and that the belief may offer no advantage. In fact, it may be a disadvantage. I may get of relatively easy come judgement day. That;s a reason -not- to give a shit, not a reason to care.
Quote:4) You DO need a relationship with Jesus to get eternal life. He himself said it multiple times. He REVEALED that the relationship is already there. It is part of our reality. Are there cases in which Jesus gives eternal life DESPITE the lack of explicit knowledge and recognition of that relationship with Jesus (e.g. the cases of some good atheists)? YES. I hope you and everyone here are in this category should you remain atheist.I think that you're shitting all over the word relationship -and- your beliefs. This relationship is no more meaningful than my "relationship" with oxygen. My acceptance of the tenants is no more useful or effective than my rejection of the same.
Quote:5) It's not that you would go to hell if you didn't have that relationship, you wouldn't exist at all if you didn't have that relationship. It's simply reality. So you get to choose to live as if it were a reality, or not. You seem to have made your choice. Fair enough.-if it is a reality it's an irrelevant and ineffectual reality to me, and if it's not a reality, I still live. See, doesn't matter either way.
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