Question for deists: Why is there a Creator?

[Zenith]

I'm just curios about deists' arguments for the existence of a Creator.
And, hopefully it does not sound foolish: why should there be only one creator?

Hopefully this is the right place to post this thread...

[bozo]

I'm just curios about deists' arguments for the existence of a Creator.
And, hopefully it does not sound foolish: why should there be only one creator?

hopefully this is the right place to post this thread...

Interesting question. Deists all believe their god is the true god. Do they believe in other, inferior, gods? If so, was creation done by a committee?

[Cinjin]

I'm just curios about deists' arguments for the existence of a Creator.
And, hopefully it does not sound foolish: why should there be only one creator?

Interesting question. Deists all believe their god is the true god. Do they believe in other, inferior, gods? If so, was creation done by a committee?

I've already addressed this OP in two other threads so I'll let some other Deist have a go at this.

I will say this though: It's reasonable to assume that the majority of revealed religions in the world consider their god to be the "true god", so I'm not real sure what point you're trying to make with that. Also, the handful of deists I know (including myself) don't care whatsoever about providing evidence for a God we know we cannot possibly prove exists.


Again, I will say I've already covered this in two other threads and I'm just not willing to go over it again. Perhaps Paladin might be interested in enlightening you, but if he's not, visit this website. http://www.deism.com/

[theVOID]

What reason do you have for assuming some intelligent entity caused the universe to begin with?

[Minimalist]

Good idea, Cinj. Let the website define it.

The designs presuppose a Designer.

divine fallacy (argument from incredulity)

The divine fallacy, or the argument from incredulity, is a species of non sequitur reasoning which goes something like this: I can't figure this out, so God must have done it. Or, This is amazing; therefore, God did it. Or, I can't think of any other explanation; therefore, God did it. Or, this is just too weird; so, God is behind it.

http://www.skepdic.com/dvinefal.html


Now, I will agree that the deist god is far less of a prick than yahweh or jesus or allah or any of the other brain farts which mankind has squeezed out however the basic fact remains: Who needs him?

[Cinjin]

Good idea, Cinj. Let the website define it.

I already went over this a couple times in other threads. It's tiresome and boring to do a third time. The link I left for them is just my way of nicely saying no thank you. What anyone interpolates from that website is of absolutely no concern to me.

Now, I will agree that the deist god is far less of a prick than yahweh or jesus or allah or any of the other brain farts which mankind has squeezed out however the basic fact remains: Who needs him?

No one needs him ... that's the beautiful simplicity of it. Take it or leave it - it doesn't matter. Enjoy your life.

[theVOID]

Then what do you mean by god?

[Cinjin]

Then what do you mean by god?

Why do I suddenly feel like blood in the water and the sharks are starting to circle?

...And I said I wouldn't do this again...... I hate defining God. How the fuck do I know who God is? It’s not like anyone actually really wants to know anyway.

Well, first of all, in order to even have a chance at seeing my point of view (not agreeing with, just seeing), you have to undo all the “learning” you’ve gained in life about “god”. All the human characteristics assigned to him, all the stories of love and wrath, heaven and hell, good cop – bad cop, all of it has to be erased from your mind. Assumptions about his love for the human race or his roll in it have to be done away with. Otherwise, one is likely to reference my points with that book of fables, the Bible. Seems easy right? Not to many. The characteristics of an almighty god have been ingrained into mankind for thousands and thousands of years and it can be very difficult for some people to come to terms with the fact that NO ONE (certainly including myself) has any real idea of who or what God actually is. For example, at least a dozen times I’ve been asked by atheists, “why do I need God?” That too, is an idea that has been created by thousands of years of men defining a god they've never met. The prevailing thought now is that the only reason a human being creates a god is because they need him. This is a concept I rejected long ago. I need nothing ...... and for whatever reason, that made God plausible to me. "Who says God has to love me?"

This is where I started my belief – and to my credit, it doesn’t go much further. I don’t pretend to know God. I would even say that it’s fair to assume that he may not even know me. I am nothing like a Christian or any person devout in their beliefs of a revealed religion. My “faith” does not run deep and it does not penetrate my existence. I don’t need a god … I like having one. God, however, is a very generalized idea to me. He is admittedly unnecessary in my daily life and yet he holds a place somewhere in the back of my mind.

So what is he to me? Simply put. A creator, not in the concept of what you’re probably thinking. A creator who set in motion a living, changing universe. An entity that may very well still be creating and/or dabbling in that creation. A being that set up the process of life and how it cycles and eventually modifies and transforms (See thread, The Soul). I view him as a genius on every level; putting together the building blocks that we continue to discover. A being that has no interest in awarding or punishing anyone and who’s love for earth/humanity probably only equates to the love of a child’s favorite tree to climb. On the other hand, and MUCH of this I’ve said in previous threads, he may not even care that we’re on the planet. You see what I’m trying to say? I agree with evolution. I agree that the earth is billions of years old. I don’t pray. I don’t think that God is going to save us or damn us. I don’t think that God is the great explanation of all things yet undiscovered. I don’t agree with arguments from incredulity, but I think it would be unfair to ask a believer of any religion not to want to give his particular god credit for something he deems amazing. I don’t believe God is perfect. I don’t believe he’s everywhere or that he knows your thoughts or that he wants to help you find your lost wallet. Again, all the human characteristics assigned to God I automatically assume are ridiculous. That being said, my ideas may be equally ridiculous and that is why I HATE defending my position on God. Any human that assumes to know God can immediately be discounted as a credible source. One CANNOT know.

I prefer the company of atheists and reserve their views as a sort of default setting for my “spirituality”. If I’m wrong and there is no God, that’s completely fine. Unlike revealed religions, my beliefs will not end up being responsible for hate crimes and the deaths of millions of people, or slow the progress of mankind in any way.

I know what many of your follow up posts would’ve been: “What’s the point of having a god?”

That again implies that I need a god. All I can say is, I like the idea of the indefinable God and perhaps my brain has been broken by all the religious nonsense I’ve been forced to endure over the years, but something inside me finds peace in this sentiment.

As a final thought: I certainly expect the fast and true atheists to disagree with me. In no way shape or form was I attempting to sway anyone’s beliefs with this post. I'm reasonably sure that would be impossible anyway. I honestly couldn’t care less about what anyone decides to believe or not believe. I was simply answering a question posed to me.

I would however love to see people stop using their beliefs as an excuse to victimize and murder the rest of humanity. Thus, my pure hatred of Christianity and Islam.

[DeistPaladin]

I'm just curios about deists' arguments for the existence of a Creator.
And, hopefully it does not sound foolish: why should there be only one creator?

hopefully this is the right place to post this thread...

When I look at the universe, I see a grand machine, from the micro to the macro. When I reflect on the human mind and how far we've come, how much seemed to come together in our evolution and hope for how far we'll go, I'm convinced this was intended.

Summer Queen asked me about the philosophy of deism. I'd like to add that one difference deism does make is a sense of optimism about the human prospect. I have a sense that the human race is progressively evolving not just biologically but also morally. We're living in a time of technological adolescence, a point that will make or break our species and our civilization. I have faith that reason will triumph, though the last ten years has tested that conviction.

As for why there is only one, because we have a supernaturally tranquil universe, one governed by only one set of laws. If there is more than one mind behind it all, they are acting as one.

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Now, I will agree that the deist god is far less of a prick than yahweh or jesus or allah or any of the other brain farts which mankind has squeezed out however the basic fact remains: Who needs him?

We don't. Deism is more about self-reliance. We already have been given what we need. The rest is up to us.

The theist looking for a caring god should keep looking. Nature's God is a bit of a hard-ass. It ain't gonna carry you on any beach. But that's OK because I've never asked It to do anything more.

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Perhaps Paladin might be interested in enlightening you, but if he's not, visit this website. http://www.deism.com/

Actually, that's not my website.

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Then what do you mean by god?

1. Conscious
2. Powerful enough to get the ball rolling
3. May have modified our evolution such that we developed the minds we have

All else is up for grabs.

[Rayaan]

So what is he to me? Simply put. A creator, not in the concept of what you’re probably thinking. A creator who set in motion a living, changing universe. An entity that may very well still be creating and/or dabbling in that creation. A being that set up the process of life and how it cycles and eventually modifies and transforms (See thread, The Soul). I view him as a genius on every level; putting together the building blocks that we continue to discover.

Thanks for posting that, Cin, but I would just like to say something in respect to the highlighted parts.

First, I notice that you described God as an "entity," and in the next sentence, you described Him as a "being." So my question is, are you using the two words "entity" and "being" in a synonymous way? I want to know if you think that there is any difference between the two words in relation to an impersonal God (since you are a deist). This brings me to the next point, which is:

Again, all the human characteristics assigned to God I automatically assume are ridiculous.

Earlier, as I highlighted above, you said that you view God as a "genius on every level." So, if God is a genius, then it means that He has intelligence, right? I'm assuming the answer is yes, and if so, then this means that your view of God does have characteristics which are shared by humans unlike what you said (although on a much superior level compared to ours) because intelligence is a quality which is present in us human beings. In short, intelligence is a human characteristic.

1. Conscious
2. Powerful enough to get the ball rolling
3. May have modified our evolution such that we developed the minds we have

So if God is a conscious being, as you stated, then does it really make sense to think that He's an impersonal God (while having consciousness)? That idea doesn't seem to fit together for me though.