(June 15, 2011 at 7:05 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:(June 15, 2011 at 3:15 pm)BloodyHeretic Wrote:Hello, you told me to respond to this in this thread, so here I am.
Well scripture actually pre-supposes that it is the word of God. This may seem a bit odd at first but when you think about it, it makes good sense. Let’s just assume for the sake of the discussion that the Bible is what it claims to be, the inerrant word of God. Is there any other method that can be used to validate or invalidate this claim? All other methods, such as historical examination and scientific inquiry are not inerrant. So it would be inappropriate to use them to prove or disprove the Bible’s claim about inerrancy. I pre-suppose the Bible is the word of God, I believe non-believers pre-suppose it is not the word of God; there is no middle ground on this subject. So both sides are biased on this matter. Everyone makes pre-suppositions; I just think that presupposing scripture is the word of God offers a far better foundation for my other pre-suppositions. Can I prove it is or is not the word of God? Nope, but I also can’t prove that my senses are reliable, but I still believe they are. Does that make any sense at all my friend?
Well thanks very much for the response, I appreciate it.
I accept your reasoning that if you presuppose the bible is inerrant that anything that then finds fault with it can be discounted, because we both agree humans are fallible. There is no way to disprove this. The fault I find is in presupposing it.
I don't agree that you have to presuppose it isn't true, if you don't presuppose it is. You can have an open mind about it, be willing to be convinced. If I am open minded, and ask a simple question, how do you know it's inerrant, in an honest attempt to find the truth, is the only answer, because it says it is? If you presuppose something is true, you can make anything fit!
Sam Harris put's it this way, if there were some disaster, that destroyed most of human civilisation, and we forgot all knowledge of religion and literature and culture and technology, when we set about rebuilding our society, what would we learn first? And at what point would we decide the bible, out of all the literary and religious texts, was the truth? How could we test it to find out? What separates it from the qu'ran or the illiad or any other text?
As far as I can see, the only reason people accept it as inerrant and the word of god is because they already believe it is. Don't you think presupposing the truth of something on faith is faulty logic and irrational?
By the way you can indeed prove your senses are reliable, for instance, an eye test.
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"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds."
Einstein
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down happy. They told me I didn't understand the assignment. I told them they didn't understand life.
- John Lennon
