Prayer ... SERIOUSLY?!

[Statler Waldorf]

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Actually, "because it works for us" isn't a logical argument for why something is true.

Some believers say "I was addicted to drugs and then I found Jesus. Christianity works for my life. Therefore it's true." This is not a rational argument to convert to Christianity. This may be the reason he chose to be a Christian but it's not a rational one. It's a value judgment. It depends both on the presumption of cause/effect (that "finding Jesus" broke his addiction) and on someone deciding that being addicted to drugs is a bad thing. Personally, I agree but that's based on my value judgment on what I want to get out of my own life.

Maybe an someone might decide they like living in the Dark Ages, in which case the magical thinking of Christianity would work better to that end than science and reason. The fact that I like the results that science and reason seem to offer is not a rational reason to choose science and reason. It's based on my desires of the kind of world I want to live in.

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So you are saying you don't have a logical reason for adhering to the laws of logic? Besides, how do you know they work? What is your other standard you use to determine they actually lead to truth?

We're discussing why we should use secular reason as opposed to Christian thinking.

You didn't say secular reason, you just said reason. I would not have called you on it if you had said secular reasoning. Even though any form of reasoning would not be possible in an atheistic universe.

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It's an assertion you dispute? Fine. Turn to page 1 of the Bible and tell me if Yahweh created plants and animals before or after creating man. Your answer must be consistent with both chapter 1 and chapter 2 of Genesis.

May the Hold Spirit telepathically guide you to the correct answer.

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Plants and animals were created before Adam. The Hebrew tense of the verb for "formed" is properly translated in Chapter 2 in context as "had formed" like it appears in the ESV. Any other alleged contradictions?